Zazen for Beginners Series: THREAD for QUESTIONS, COMMENTS

[DogBreath]

Hello Jundo
Profile pic:-
I just went to my profile page and the second photo I tried to upload is there - is that one ok, or would you prefer a different one without the dog and shades? Please let me know if I need to change it or not.
avatar image:-
I assume I still need to upload a 80x80 pixel photo? Am not sure how to find something so small (I'm a Luddite by choice which can be a problem when you actually need to use the machine!) - I will work on that later today.
Gassho
Scott

[DogBreath]

Thanks, I will check out the links and try to upload another photo.
Gassho
Scott

[Kevin Benbow]

<gassho>

Klb
Sat today

[Jundo]

Hello
I have some questions about video 20 - what can it actually mean to save another sentient being?
How can anyone "save" anyone else?
Aren't we "saved" when we sit?
So if someone refuses to sit?.....

As I understand it in Mahayana the Bodhisatva vow is usually some form of "May I attain Buddhahood for the benefit of all sentient beings".
Is it the same/similar in this tradition?
If so, I save other sentient beings by attaining my own buddhahood? (Hhmmm truly talking in two directions at the same time - I am slowly starting to pick this zen thing up!)


Also, how is compassion defined in this tradition?
If I want to be "compassionate" then knowing what constitutes that is kind of important!
Previously, I heard from a teacher (different tradition) who defined compassion as seeing the source of a persons suffering; so, a compassionate act is always one that diminishes suffering; this means to assist a suffering person to see their cause of suffering as a result of being in conflict (somewhere along the line) with, or denial of, the four noble truths - the remedy being the Noble Eightfold Path (a self-referential feedback loop for the four noble truths). Is it the same in zen or am I looking for some emotional content based around "heart"?
(I am compassionate in daily life - ask all my rescue dogs! - and I put the flies outside too)

Thanks
Gassho
Scott

Hi Scott,

First, may I ask you to change your photo from a dog to a human face? Although a dog has Buddha Nature, and although we love dogs, there is something about a human face that let's us look each other in the eyes and be a bit warmer here. Thank you.

Next, on saving sentient beings ... although, truly there were never any sentient beings from the first in need of saving ... I usually tell folks this:

This wise-crazy [Mahayana] Way is to realize, and allow other sentient beings to realize, that there have never been (ultimately) any sentient beings from the start, and thus (in the Wholeness which is "Emptiness") no conflict or lack from the start in need of repairing and rescuing! In the Wholeness which is emptiness, there is no lack in need of filling. Allowing sentient being to experience so in this world of separate beings who conflict and lack is how we rescue-non-rescue these beings-non-beings.

However, so long as they/we are alive ("birth and death", by the way, are also ultimately only one way to view things), the sentient beings still need to live in this complicated, sometimes beautiful and sometimes ugly world, so another way to rescue sentient beings is to help them master how to live in the interplay of these two ways of viewing ... lack and no lack, fear and nothing originally to fear, conflicts and no individuals to conflict, death but no death etc. It's tricky!

Finally, in modern times, many Buddhists have become a bit more focused on "rescuing sentient beings" by material actions in this world, e.g., feeding the hungry, housing the homeless, etc. It was not that Buddhists would not have liked to do such in the past (and there were many ancient Buddhists who did good charitable work like that in the past), but it was much harder in the medieval, agricultural, traditional, class bound kingdoms and empires of old Asia. So, a lot of Buddhists took the attitude that this world was just hopeless, best to "get out of Dodge," either by escaping rebirth completely or just building a wall and shutting the monastery gates. Now, today, in modern societies, "engaged" Buddhist efforts to make an impact on the problems of society such as hunger, war and poverty are possible for the first time, so many Buddhists (Treeleaf folks among them) are more socially involved.

Many ways to rescue even if ... ultimately ... nobody in need of rescue. Even if there are no hungry mouths to feed "ultimately" ... there are hungry mouths to feed in this world, so let's feed them!

It is not merely a matter of compelling others to sit Zazen (I don't know that it would be legal!), nor even something that we can even accomplish. However, the above also tells us that, while we keep working, there was never anything to "accomplish" from the start. Thus our crazy-wise Bodhisattva Vows which many of us recite say this ...

To save all sentient beings, though beings numberless

To transform all delusions, though delusions inexhaustible

To perceive Reality, though Reality is boundless

To attain the Enlightened Way, a Way non-attainable

As to Compassion, it is really all of the above too, and has many facets. First, reality is already "Compassionate" because there is not suffering from the startless start. Yet, sentient beings in their broken vision of the world do not realize this, so we are Compassionate when we seek to get suffering sentient beings to realize this Wholeness of Emptiness. We are also Compassionate when we reach out to aid people in their earthly needs and pains. Alas, it is an endless road, yet we have never but arrived!

Does that make any sense?

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

[DogBreath]

Hello
I have some questions about video 20 - what can it actually mean to save another sentient being?
How can anyone "save" anyone else?
Aren't we "saved" when we sit?
So if someone refuses to sit?.....

As I understand it in Mahayana the Bodhisatva vow is usually some form of "May I attain Buddhahood for the benefit of all sentient beings".
Is it the same/similar in this tradition?
If so, I save other sentient beings by attaining my own buddhahood? (Hhmmm truly talking in two directions at the same time - I am slowly starting to pick this zen thing up!)


Also, how is compassion defined in this tradition?
If I want to be "compassionate" then knowing what constitutes that is kind of important!
Previously, I heard from a teacher (different tradition) who defined compassion as seeing the source of a persons suffering; so, a compassionate act is always one that diminishes suffering; this means to assist a suffering person to see their cause of suffering as a result of being in conflict (somewhere along the line) with, or denial of, the four noble truths - the remedy being the Noble Eightfold Path (a self-referential feedback loop for the four noble truths). Is it the same in zen or am I looking for some emotional content based around "heart"?
(I am compassionate in daily life - ask all my rescue dogs! - and I put the flies outside too)

Thanks
Gassho
Scott

[Jundo]

Thank you Jundo!
You are quite the "Realtor" at pointing out our TRUE HOME

Gassho
Koki
Sattoday

l get 6% for every closing ... and opening.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Koki]

Thank you Jundo!
You are quite the "Realtor" at pointing out our TRUE HOME

Gassho
Koki
Sattoday

[Hokin]

Oh...and that link you suggested I watch...that'll be my "Dharma talk" tonight, before Zazen!

Thank you again, GASSHO

[Hokin]

Ah, you are fortunate to have the best Zendo!

Recall that the true "Silent Room" is in one's heart and between one's ears, not outside them. This is for you ...

- Zazen for Beginners (21) - The True 'Quiet Room' (LINK)

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?14875-Sit-a-Long-with-Jundo-Zazen-for-Beginners-%2821%29

You can run to a new house, but where can you run? Stay where one is, and know one's True Home.

Gassho, J

STLah

Wow Jundo.
Thank you very much!
I can't tell you how much I needed to hear exactly that!
There was already something deep within me suggesting that THAT was the right answer...but as I said...I needed some feedback...It kinda helps me disperse those doubts I nurtured at times...

Thank you, Jundo.
Now I will of course appreciate evermore my True Home.
So...Back to the Zafu!

GASSHO.
Arya.
ST&LAH.

[Jundo]

...
The "problem"(and I don't know if I should call it like that, actually...and you'll find out why...) is that since two months ago my family and I moved to live in a new house for rent which has a very "loud" neighborhood

Ah, you are fortunate to have the best Zendo!

Recall that the true "Silent Room" is in one's heart and between one's ears, not outside them. This is for you ...

- Zazen for Beginners (21) - The True 'Quiet Room' (LINK)

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?14875-Sit-a-Long-with-Jundo-Zazen-for-Beginners-%2821%29

You can run to a new house, but where can you run? Stay where one is, and know one's True Home.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Hokin]

Yes...you are right...it was no "little question" at all, in the end...but you see..."big" and "little" are just a concept...and a very relative one at that!

Lol

Gassho.

[Hokin]

Hello Sangha!
I have a little question...:
The thing is...I try sit Zazen every time I can...but at least I sit once in the morning before anything else and once befor going to sleep...
Now...these, you should have guessed, are my "principal" sittings during my every day...
The "problem"(and I don't know if I should call it like that, actually...and you'll find out why...) is that since two months ago my family and I moved to live in a new house for rent which has a very "loud" neighborhood (and remember, especially if you don't know firsthand, that the word "loud" here in Mexico has a superpowerful connotation, given the fact that here everybody can do what he or she pleases without bothering if that could ever be "irrespectful" towards other's situation...and anyway police won't do...if you thought of it).
So...the thing is they (Yes, "they", because there are so many!) play music and shout and make any possible noise imaginable (I mean it...I am not overdoing anything!)...and almost all day long, but especially at those times when I actually can sit Zazen.
Now...I am just sticking to Zazen and going through all that and my emotions and opinions and breathing and letting go, breathing, accepting, embracing, breathing and just sitting...just sitting with Mexican popular music playing loud just outside the window and the shouts and the loud talk...and there I am...just sitting...with all that...and even so...just trying to keep Zazen easy and pure "just sitting" with no thought of gain or expectations about it at all...and I sometimes actually "succeed" in wholeheartedly accepting and being one with it.
Actually I feel that it all is making me every time a little bit more tolerant and open to welcome (or at least accept) "what I don't like".
As Yoka Daishi wrote: "A lotus lives in the midst of the fire". (Kind of, we could say, I'm trying to fake the lotus until I make it!)
But in the meanwhile still persists a more or less "strong" resistance in me, specially at times, and a certain kind of doubt concerning if I am actually doing it right...but the thing is, I don't or can't see many alternatives.
One could be, "I quit practicing Zazen"(and to that I firmly answer a rotund "NO, NEVER! ")
The other is "Change house"...but who will convince my wife?! (Careful if you ever give it a try...! Lol)
And the other is I can play some kind of stuff such as "nature sounds" track on the stereo and sort of half-drown the noise outside...which i tried...but then I feel as though I were running away from the truth of the here and now and that i doubt is "the Way"...so I keep it "natural"(which doesn't mean birds and singing wind throuh pines, but "Mexican Town" "natural" kind of stuff...i.e.: ranch music and yelling drunkards and so on...don't know if I should cry or laugh out loud...I prefer the latter...)
Now...there is so much more that could (and maybe "should") be said...but I'll leave it at that...i hope i am made mysel clear...for now...
I genuinely trust your intuition and experience (even though not everybody among you has ever dealt with Mexico...I guess)...
I just want to know your thougts/advises/suggestions/guidance with respect to this situation I'm facing with in this period of my life/practice (And now more than ever I sense how these two are so inseparably linked!...and maybe that's the answer...but I want to receive feedback from you...some different opinions and reflections about it all...)

Thank you beforehand.

Gassho.
Arya.
ST&LAH.

[Onkai]

Thank you, Jundo, for having these talks up. For Ango, I'm listening to a sit-a-longs followed by fifteen minutes sitting. I listened to the Sit-a-longs a few years ago Listening to them again has renewed my practice.

Gassho,
Onkai
Sat/LAH

[Marw]

Thank you all for your answers.

Yes, maybe I think about my sitting position too much. Shame on me. it's just that I've never been physically impaired in any situation until now. Probably I've to lern that these situations exist. But that's what I'm here for - to learn and to develop further.
Or maybe I'm just to fat.
No matter that the real reason is, I will do what you do. Sit everyday in a comfortable position.

Also, l strongly advise to read this book ...

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/show...-OF-MEDITATION

Thanks for the book tip Jundo.
I would read it. But at the moment I've started to read "Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind" from Shunryu Suzuki. After I finished I will start the next one.

More threads to look at Marwin. Generally, it is best to sit when not sleepy, so may you should change time to morning or afternoon if possible. lf not, when sleepy ... just be sleepy.

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/search.php?searchid=992507

You will find a few tips in some of those threads, and you must simply find what seems to work for you.

Unfortunately, the link doesn't work. But I have listend to your advice. At the beginning I sit in the evening to get a clear mind without the thoughts of the day. The last days I sat in the morning after getting up even before breakfast. I must say it feels good. I will try to make it a habit.

We will dedicate a part of our Zazenkai tomorrow with Kyonin to all the folks with creaky knees, hips and backs.

I will try to be there. But 3 am is a little early. So maybe I'll take a look at the recording later.

You didn't say what you sit on? I wonder if sitting a little higher, and/or a little more forward, would help the knees to touch the floor for more stability? Think tripod: three points of contact to spread your weight and allow good balance and stability. Like Jundo says, you have to experiment and find the best way for you. Remember, you have the rest of your life to refine your sitting position, so no need to hurry or force anything.

I sit on a yoga pillow filled with buckwheat fur. After I read your tip I've filled it a little more. And what should I say it's better know. My knees get to the ground without any pain.

So thank you all again for your help and tips and stories and all of it. I feel very comfortable here thanks to you.

Gassho
Marwin
SatbetterToday

[Byokan]

Hi Marwin,

sounds like you're on the right track. I would caution you to be careful with those knees! Yoga is a great exercise to prepare the body for sitting, but again, use caution. A good teacher is the best thing if you want to try to increase your flexibility. Nothing wrong with Burmese. I used to sit Lotus, but then I got fat like a Buddha and now it's Burmese for me. What's important is finding a position that allows you to sit with stability, and the minimum of effort, while remaining alert.

You didn't say what you sit on? I wonder if sitting a little higher, and/or a little more forward, would help the knees to touch the floor for more stability? Think tripod: three points of contact to spread your weight and allow good balance and stability. Like Jundo says, you have to experiment and find the best way for you. Remember, you have the rest of your life to refine your sitting position, so no need to hurry or force anything.

You're already doing the hardest part, which is sitting every day! Go ahead and try a few morning sits if you like, and see how you do. A daily 15 minute (or more if you have time) sit in the morning would be good "insurance" as you say, and makes a great start to the day. There's no better or worse time, really, what counts is the consistency, so find the time that's best for you and let it become a natural part of your day.

Enjoy your sitting

Gassho
Byōkan
sat + lah