Zazen for Beginners Series: THREAD for QUESTIONS, COMMENTS

[Meian]

If not for Treeleaf I would not be practicing at all.

Due to certain issues, I am unable to straighten my spine, nor am I able to hold certain postures for lengths of time without severe pain or lingering side effects.

Here, I don't have to - I sit or recline in a way that minimizes problems while fulfilling the intent and purpose of shikantaza.

And sometimes, when the pain is there no matter what, I sit with that also and let things be as they are.

Gassho
Meian
St lh

Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk

[Yokai]

Listened to Zazen for Beginners 1. Incisive. My head is full of blenders! Many thanks Jundo. Gasho Chris - sat today -

[bayamo]

Aw geez how this bugs me. For all me years sitting, watching paint dry (actually now it's tiles, my wall has tiles), I've never been able to shake the "is my back straight?", and always check my shadow on the wall.
#sattoday

Sent from my SM-G610M using Tapatalk

[Bokugan]

Prior to Treeleaf, about 7 years ago, I was able to sit one hour or more at a time without any pain. It was not till I joined Treeleaf and began reading and taking other folks advice on how to sit properly that I began to have pain and difficulty with sitting or kneeling for extended periods. Sitting is intuitive. Little instruction is needed. Attachment to “right sitting” or “posture” in my case has caused a lot of problems. I always do better when I ignore advice on how to sit and just sit.

Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

Hi Jishin,

I'm certainly one to overthink things, and can totally see where I might be working too hard to be in what I have in my head as an "authentic" posture. Thank you for this -- I think I needed a reminder/reinforcement that the whole idea is quite simple: "just sit"

I'll be sure to keep this in mind as I settle in next time.

Gassho,
Ryan

Sat Today

[Bokugan]

Yes, you are actually the best judge of posture. This book is highly recommended for finding the posture(s) for you (plural, because the body is actually a bit fluid in sitting).

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?6913-Book-Recommendation-THE-POSTURE-OF-MEDITATION

However, I was just think to ask folks to post some pictures in another thread. You may want to do so so that I can take a look.

Gassho, Jundo

Hi Jundo,

I added the book to my list, I'll be sure to check it out. Thanks!

I'll see about posting a picture sometime if you kick a thread up for that. I really appreciate how the focus is on being comfortable, and that this fact is brought up repeatedly in the intro video. I need to keep that my focus when it comes to posture.

Short update -- I did experiment more this morning, removed a full cup of the buckwheat hulls (boy did I nearly make a mess there!) and my session was better. I definitely think the zafu height is part of it.

Gassho,

Ryan
Sat Today

[Tai Shi]

Thank you Jundo—think I’ll loop my mantra to simple breath counting then punctuate with The a Serenity Prayer.
Tai Sho
sat/ lah
Gassho


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jundo]

Lately my Zazen has been mixed because of discomfort, not exactly the sensations I’m used to, I’ve been going without Lidocaine patches more often, so what I feel is more natural to my norm. Yet, I feel this may have nothing to do with how I feel during Shikantaza so maybe ignore sensation as best I can no matter the situation? Especially when sitting Zazen?
Tai Shi
sat
Gassho


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Do not ignore the situation, but do as you can not to run toward the situation or become tangled in thoughts about it.

If you need (and it sounds like you may), sit focused on following the breath or counting the breath. If you need something stronger, I may even recommend a mantra (you can make your own, Tai Shi, that speaks to your heart and let me know. Perhaps something with your Christian faith would be fine.)

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

[Tai Shi]

Lately my Zazen has been mixed because of discomfort, not exactly the sensations I’m used to, I’ve been going without Lidocaine patches more often, so what I feel is more natural to my norm. Yet, I feel this may have nothing to do with how I feel during Shikantaza so maybe ignore sensation as best I can no matter the situation? Especially when sitting Zazen?
Tai Shi
sat
Gassho


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[drew]

It had another effect too. At work, there is somebody that was thrown on our team during a re-org who irritates everybody. Strongly suspect narcissistic issues. Today there was an IM thread complaining about and disparaging that person. I started to type my own comment and then thought. "There is much suffering that causes him to act this way" I will feel compassion and will not say anything disparaging.


A small thing but a shift in thoughts and actions.

Gassho, drew
Sat

[Jishin]

[emoji3]

[Jundo]

Prior to Treeleaf, about 7 years ago, I was able to sit one hour or more at a time without any pain. It was not till I joined Treeleaf and began reading and taking other folks advice on how to sit properly that I began to have pain and difficulty with sitting or kneeling for extended periods. Sitting is intuitive. Little instruction is needed. Attachment to “right sitting” or “posture” in my case has caused a lot of problems. I always do better when I ignore advice on how to sit and just sit.

Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

Ya see, this place does have effects on people!

Gassho, J

STLah

[Jishin]

Yes, you are actually the best judge of posture.

Prior to Treeleaf, about 7 years ago, I was able to sit one hour or more at a time without any pain. It was not till I joined Treeleaf and began reading and taking other folks advice on how to sit properly that I began to have pain and difficulty with sitting or kneeling for extended periods. Sitting is intuitive. Little instruction is needed. Attachment to “right sitting” or “posture” in my case has caused a lot of problems. I always do better when I ignore advice on how to sit and just sit.

Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

[Jundo]

Hi Jundo,

Thank you for the advice and visual references. Much appreciated!

I did some experimenting this morning with what you shared in mind and think I might be onto something now.

I was very careful to ensure I was sitting so my spine was slightly in front of the center of my zafu and still experienced what I described. However, I took a moment to examine my posture after my session, and think my thigh muscles flexing is a result of me pitching forward slightly as I sit. It was such a gradual shift that I didn't notice. My back was still straight, but I was leaning forward a bit from the waist.

My zafu looks similar in size and fullness to the one you use in your Beginners Series. Even so, I think it could be a little too high for me. Mine is stuffed with buckwheat hulls, and doesn't squish down much when I settle into it (gets pretty much daily use and I haven't noticed it breaking down much yet).

I'll keep experimenting and work to keep my posture more centered. I also think I would like to try removing a cup or so of the buckwheat hulls. It may not be wedging enough for proper support, and therefore partially responsible for me pitching forward like this as I sit.

Gassho,
Ryan

Sat Today

Yes, you are actually the best judge of posture. This book is highly recommended for finding the posture(s) for you (plural, because the body is actually a bit fluid in sitting).

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?6913-Book-Recommendation-THE-POSTURE-OF-MEDITATION

However, I was just think to ask folks to post some pictures in another thread. You may want to do so so that I can take a look.

Gassho, Jundo

[Bokugan]

Hi Ryan,

Is you Zafu perhaps rather tall, or are you sitting a bit far back on the Zafu? Your spine should be slightly in front of the center axle of the round Zafu, and the Zafu should wedge nicely to offer support. Like here:



This fellow is too far back ...



I am thinking that something like this is too high, and would also put strain to stay on board ...



There should be no such strain to stay in position. Experiment and report back.

Gassho, J

STLah

Hi Jundo,

Thank you for the advice and visual references. Much appreciated!

I did some experimenting this morning with what you shared in mind and think I might be onto something now.

I was very careful to ensure I was sitting so my spine was slightly in front of the center of my zafu and still experienced what I described. However, I took a moment to examine my posture after my session, and think my thigh muscles flexing is a result of me pitching forward slightly as I sit. It was such a gradual shift that I didn't notice. My back was still straight, but I was leaning forward a bit from the waist.

My zafu looks similar in size and fullness to the one you use in your Beginners Series. Even so, I think it could be a little too high for me. Mine is stuffed with buckwheat hulls, and doesn't squish down much when I settle into it (gets pretty much daily use and I haven't noticed it breaking down much yet).

I'll keep experimenting and work to keep my posture more centered. I also think I would like to try removing a cup or so of the buckwheat hulls. It may not be wedging enough for proper support, and therefore partially responsible for me pitching forward like this as I sit.

Gassho,
Ryan

Sat Today

[Tai Shi]

Wish to know more about Dogen. I’ve watched the film on Facebook, read a little more in How to Cook Your Life. Maybe read a short biography now. So MUCH reading!
Gassho
Tai Shi


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk