Zazen for Beginners Series: THREAD for QUESTIONS, COMMENTS

[Tai Shi]

Jundo,

I received my new zafu and zabuton a few days ago. I chose to try a traditional round, buckwheat hull stuffed zafu and thicker kapok filled (but soft) zabuton. I have been sitting mostly Burmese now as well. These changes have helped tremendously! I barely get any tingling or numbness going on now and what minor bit may occur goes away immediately upon standing (no long lasting numbness of rush of sensation/pain when I get up now). I removed a bit of fill from the zafu after my first zazen with it and that improved it for me too.

I was able to sit my first Zazenkai tonight without pain thanks to the changes. Thank you!

Gassho /\
Kendrick
SatTonight/LAH

Hello Jundo, I have what is called a Buddhist chair cushion, from Amazon, and it is a wedge, larger side facing out from legs places back against strait back chair such that with proper distance feet to floor, back against chair easily, and as I said a Buddhist chair cushion, $40, my wife helped me purchase. I think it may come from a Buddhist supply company or even a monastery. It has been helpful on my back bottom side. I believe with left shoulder supported, I sit proper chair formation, and from Bring the Sacred to Life, the daily practice of Zen Ritual, John Daido Loori, Shambhala. 2008, I am beginning to learn much. I highly recommend this little book-- 122 pages--

Gassho
sat
Tai Shi

[Kendrick]

Yes, experiment, experiment ... hard and soft, round, high or low Zafu, sitting a bit more forward or back, looser pants, shifting weight a bit when the symptoms start.

Please report back what you find the key for your body. I bet the square cushion is a cause.

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

Jundo,

I received my new zafu and zabuton a few days ago. I chose to try a traditional round, buckwheat hull stuffed zafu and thicker kapok filled (but soft) zabuton. I have been sitting mostly Burmese now as well. These changes have helped tremendously! I barely get any tingling or numbness going on now and what minor bit may occur goes away immediately upon standing (no long lasting numbness of rush of sensation/pain when I get up now). I removed a bit of fill from the zafu after my first zazen with it and that improved it for me too.

I was able to sit my first Zazenkai tonight without pain thanks to the changes. Thank you!

Gassho /\
Kendrick
SatTonight/LAH

[Tai Shi]

It is my intent to review all the videos in order. I have been just sitting Shikantaza for five years this coming October, and I am but a novice. I believe I am running on my own autopilot. It is time to review. The hand pictures were most helpful because I have severe arthritis in my spine which has moved out into my hands. I am 67 so less strength is predictable, but now I think can relax into hand positions that help me. I have discovered a method of dual support in a straight back chair, back against chair, left shoulder against wall such that I am supported into proper posture without strain on my spine. Since the spine is the location of most of my pain especially neck, I can let my breath happen without so much work and allow nostrils without mouth to breathe. In group computer sits, It's best that I sit before screen in an office chair with arms, so I don't fall out of the chair on my left. All this is for older, and disabled members.

Tai Shi
sat/lah
Gassho

Hi guys

I just finished watching episode 3 of the beginners course, regarding how to sit. Is there a particular reason why one cant sit cross-legged?

Hey Dean,

If one sat in the standard cross legged position, with the one foot tucked under the leg that foot would fall asleep for one. Second, it actually doesn't create a solid balanced foundation, as they hips will be tilted to the one side.

Have you tired to Burmese position? You can see it in the top right.

meditation-poses.jpg

Gassho
Shingen

Sat/LAH

[Dean Weaver]

Hi guys

I just finished watching episode 3 of the beginners course, regarding how to sit. Is there a particular reason why one cant sit cross-legged?

[Jundo]

Just finished sitting after Lesson 3. I have been watching a lesson each night before I sit, though I did the order as 1,2,4,3 so far (because I had less time last night and saved the longer lesson I skipped over for tonight).

Jundo,

Thank you greatly for the teaching. In Lesson 3 you mentioned the siatic nerve as a source of tingling/numbness - tonight I sat Burmese for the first time for zazen (I have always sat Half-Lotus). Usually my top leg will go numb after 15-20 minutes. Not a game-stopper during zazen at all but the standing up when finished, yikes! I found Burmese very comfortable, and I will be trying it some more in my sitting. Even so, tonight BOTH legs went probably 75% numb. Having tried this and had that result, and after watching the video, I think I have narrowed my search for the issue causing the numbness now. I have always sat with a small rectangular, stiff, kapok filled meditation cushion. In Burmese, I think my knees relaxed more into the floor which put more pressure on both of my legs, and that nerve, over the edge of my cushion. I am going to find a traditional round zafu (probably buckwheat filled) soon and see how that goes. I think the softer zafu without the harsh edges pressing into my legs may help.

Gassho
Kendrick
SatToday and LAH

Yes, experiment, experiment ... hard and soft, round, high or low Zafu, sitting a bit more forward or back, looser pants, shifting weight a bit when the symptoms start.

Please report back what you find the key for your body. I bet the square cushion is a cause.

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

[Kendrick]

Just finished sitting after Lesson 3. I have been watching a lesson each night before I sit, though I did the order as 1,2,4,3 so far (because I had less time last night and saved the longer lesson I skipped over for tonight).

Jundo,

Thank you greatly for the teaching. In Lesson 3 you mentioned the siatic nerve as a source of tingling/numbness - tonight I sat Burmese for the first time for zazen (I have always sat Half-Lotus). Usually my top leg will go numb after 15-20 minutes. Not a game-stopper during zazen at all but the standing up when finished, yikes! I found Burmese very comfortable, and I will be trying it some more in my sitting. Even so, tonight BOTH legs went probably 75% numb. Having tried this and had that result, and after watching the video, I think I have narrowed my search for the issue causing the numbness now. I have always sat with a small rectangular, stiff, kapok filled meditation cushion. In Burmese, I think my knees relaxed more into the floor which put more pressure on both of my legs, and that nerve, over the edge of my cushion. I am going to find a traditional round zafu (probably buckwheat filled) soon and see how that goes. I think the softer zafu without the harsh edges pressing into my legs may help.

Gassho
Kendrick
SatToday and LAH

[silence]

They are so many good ideas!
Thank you very much for your help.

Gassho
John

Sat today

[Onka]

I'm afraid you answered John's question Mundo not mine.
Respectfully, Anna
Sat today/LAH

[Jundo]

Jundo
May I ask how I should have my hands while doing Zazen both standing and lying down.
Anna.

ST/LAH

Sent from my ZTE BLADE A125 using Tapatalk

Hi Anna,

I echo what others have said. Our usual position (Mudra) of the hands during Zazen is this, and I bet that you are just too forceful, and not relaxed, in holding your fingers lightly together.

The hands should be like Suzuki Roshi here ... very light, low pressure, not too loose or too tight ...



The hands should rest in the lap, not be up in the air or on the chest. It is okay to put cloths, a small towel or pillow under the hands if they don't rest in the lap nicely. (Sometimes I see folks who hold it high up on the chest or resting on their pot belly, and I don't recommend that usually).

The whole sitting posture of the entire body should be upright and balanced, but relaxed and nice ... not too lose or too tight.

Our other main hand position is for walking Kinhin (walking Zazen) called Shashu, held in the middle of the chest while walking.



There is a little more description in our Guide to Basic Sitting (PDF) which I sent you in the "Welcome" email.

https://sites.google.com/site/jundotreeleaf/TreeleafBasicZazenInstructions.pdf?attredirects=0&d=1

I have some early arthritis in my fingers, so I can empathize.

Gassho, Jundo

[Onka]

Anna, the sitting is "proper" when the heart is at home in "sitting" (reclining etc.) such way, and the secret to that is between one's own ears. lf one feels at home, then one is at home.

Gassho, J

STLah

Jundo
May I ask how I should have my hands while doing Zazen both standing and lying down.
Anna.

ST/LAH

Sent from my ZTE BLADE A125 using Tapatalk

[Tai Do]

Hi John,
Good that you already saw a doctor. We cannot reject professional help when needed. But as he found nothing wrong...
I think that if helps you with your pain, it is OK to use a folded cloth in your lap. I myself already did the same when my back was hurting a lot that I couldn’t bring my hands together without pain between the shoulders. Perhaps it has something to do with the strength with which you are doing the mudra, or the overall position of your body. I’m constantly experimenting small variations in my positioning (even during a sit) in order to avoid pain. I think there is nothing wrong with it, but our veterans and teachers can certainly guide you better than me.
Gassho,
Mateus
Sat/LAH

Hello

Thank you for your fast answers.

There is no long time, that a doctor checked it. There is nothing.
When I get relex, it stop hurting. But it is difficult to relax for me.

A folded cloth under my handis stabilitizong my hands. And then it gets better. I tried just now for one Zazen-period.
Do you think thats a good idea? Can i use a folded colth?

Gassho
John

Sat today

Hey John,

Sometimes when we are holding our hand mudra we are also unconsciously holding it too tight or firm. Have you tried a couple different hand positions to see if it helps?

This is the Soto tradition that we do here ...

hand 2.jpg

Here is a Rinzai style ...

hand 3.jpg

And here is an example of relaxing the thumbs ... (maybe give this one a try and see if it helps relax the thumbs).

hand 1.jpeg

Also, it is find it you want to add a blanket or some support on your lap for your hands to rest.

Let us know how you get along. =)

Gassho
Shingen

Sat/LAH

[silence]

Hello

Thank you for your fast answers.

There is no long time, that a doctor checked it. There is nothing.
When I get relex, it stop hurting. But it is difficult to relax for me.

A folded cloth under my handis stabilitizong my hands. And then it gets better. I tried just now for one Zazen-period.
Do you think thats a good idea? Can i use a folded colth?

Gassho
John

Sat today

John,

I don't know if you are doing anything wrong, but it sounds like one of your left joints might be having some trouble. If it hurts, perhaps maybe a check up at the doctor to make sure that there isn't some underlying issue?

Gassho

Sat today, lah

Hey John,

I echo what Geika is sayin here.

Be well.

Gassho
Shingen

Sat/LAH