Zazen for Beginners Series: THREAD for QUESTIONS, COMMENTS

[Jundo]

Just finished sitting after Lesson 3. I have been watching a lesson each night before I sit, though I did the order as 1,2,4,3 so far (because I had less time last night and saved the longer lesson I skipped over for tonight).

Jundo,

Thank you greatly for the teaching. In Lesson 3 you mentioned the siatic nerve as a source of tingling/numbness - tonight I sat Burmese for the first time for zazen (I have always sat Half-Lotus). Usually my top leg will go numb after 15-20 minutes. Not a game-stopper during zazen at all but the standing up when finished, yikes! I found Burmese very comfortable, and I will be trying it some more in my sitting. Even so, tonight BOTH legs went probably 75% numb. Having tried this and had that result, and after watching the video, I think I have narrowed my search for the issue causing the numbness now. I have always sat with a small rectangular, stiff, kapok filled meditation cushion. In Burmese, I think my knees relaxed more into the floor which put more pressure on both of my legs, and that nerve, over the edge of my cushion. I am going to find a traditional round zafu (probably buckwheat filled) soon and see how that goes. I think the softer zafu without the harsh edges pressing into my legs may help.

Gassho
Kendrick
SatToday and LAH

Yes, experiment, experiment ... hard and soft, round, high or low Zafu, sitting a bit more forward or back, looser pants, shifting weight a bit when the symptoms start.

Please report back what you find the key for your body. I bet the square cushion is a cause.

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

[Kendrick]

Just finished sitting after Lesson 3. I have been watching a lesson each night before I sit, though I did the order as 1,2,4,3 so far (because I had less time last night and saved the longer lesson I skipped over for tonight).

Jundo,

Thank you greatly for the teaching. In Lesson 3 you mentioned the siatic nerve as a source of tingling/numbness - tonight I sat Burmese for the first time for zazen (I have always sat Half-Lotus). Usually my top leg will go numb after 15-20 minutes. Not a game-stopper during zazen at all but the standing up when finished, yikes! I found Burmese very comfortable, and I will be trying it some more in my sitting. Even so, tonight BOTH legs went probably 75% numb. Having tried this and had that result, and after watching the video, I think I have narrowed my search for the issue causing the numbness now. I have always sat with a small rectangular, stiff, kapok filled meditation cushion. In Burmese, I think my knees relaxed more into the floor which put more pressure on both of my legs, and that nerve, over the edge of my cushion. I am going to find a traditional round zafu (probably buckwheat filled) soon and see how that goes. I think the softer zafu without the harsh edges pressing into my legs may help.

Gassho
Kendrick
SatToday and LAH

[silence]

They are so many good ideas!
Thank you very much for your help.

Gassho
John

Sat today

[Onka]

I'm afraid you answered John's question Mundo not mine.
Respectfully, Anna
Sat today/LAH

[Jundo]

Jundo
May I ask how I should have my hands while doing Zazen both standing and lying down.
Anna.

ST/LAH

Sent from my ZTE BLADE A125 using Tapatalk

Hi Anna,

I echo what others have said. Our usual position (Mudra) of the hands during Zazen is this, and I bet that you are just too forceful, and not relaxed, in holding your fingers lightly together.

The hands should be like Suzuki Roshi here ... very light, low pressure, not too loose or too tight ...



The hands should rest in the lap, not be up in the air or on the chest. It is okay to put cloths, a small towel or pillow under the hands if they don't rest in the lap nicely. (Sometimes I see folks who hold it high up on the chest or resting on their pot belly, and I don't recommend that usually).

The whole sitting posture of the entire body should be upright and balanced, but relaxed and nice ... not too lose or too tight.

Our other main hand position is for walking Kinhin (walking Zazen) called Shashu, held in the middle of the chest while walking.



There is a little more description in our Guide to Basic Sitting (PDF) which I sent you in the "Welcome" email.

https://sites.google.com/site/jundotreeleaf/TreeleafBasicZazenInstructions.pdf?attredirects=0&d=1

I have some early arthritis in my fingers, so I can empathize.

Gassho, Jundo

[Onka]

Anna, the sitting is "proper" when the heart is at home in "sitting" (reclining etc.) such way, and the secret to that is between one's own ears. lf one feels at home, then one is at home.

Gassho, J

STLah

Jundo
May I ask how I should have my hands while doing Zazen both standing and lying down.
Anna.

ST/LAH

Sent from my ZTE BLADE A125 using Tapatalk

[Tai Do]

Hi John,
Good that you already saw a doctor. We cannot reject professional help when needed. But as he found nothing wrong...
I think that if helps you with your pain, it is OK to use a folded cloth in your lap. I myself already did the same when my back was hurting a lot that I couldn’t bring my hands together without pain between the shoulders. Perhaps it has something to do with the strength with which you are doing the mudra, or the overall position of your body. I’m constantly experimenting small variations in my positioning (even during a sit) in order to avoid pain. I think there is nothing wrong with it, but our veterans and teachers can certainly guide you better than me.
Gassho,
Mateus
Sat/LAH

Hello

Thank you for your fast answers.

There is no long time, that a doctor checked it. There is nothing.
When I get relex, it stop hurting. But it is difficult to relax for me.

A folded cloth under my handis stabilitizong my hands. And then it gets better. I tried just now for one Zazen-period.
Do you think thats a good idea? Can i use a folded colth?

Gassho
John

Sat today

Hey John,

Sometimes when we are holding our hand mudra we are also unconsciously holding it too tight or firm. Have you tried a couple different hand positions to see if it helps?

This is the Soto tradition that we do here ...

hand 2.jpg

Here is a Rinzai style ...

hand 3.jpg

And here is an example of relaxing the thumbs ... (maybe give this one a try and see if it helps relax the thumbs).

hand 1.jpeg

Also, it is find it you want to add a blanket or some support on your lap for your hands to rest.

Let us know how you get along. =)

Gassho
Shingen

Sat/LAH

[silence]

Hello

Thank you for your fast answers.

There is no long time, that a doctor checked it. There is nothing.
When I get relex, it stop hurting. But it is difficult to relax for me.

A folded cloth under my handis stabilitizong my hands. And then it gets better. I tried just now for one Zazen-period.
Do you think thats a good idea? Can i use a folded colth?

Gassho
John

Sat today

John,

I don't know if you are doing anything wrong, but it sounds like one of your left joints might be having some trouble. If it hurts, perhaps maybe a check up at the doctor to make sure that there isn't some underlying issue?

Gassho

Sat today, lah

Hey John,

I echo what Geika is sayin here.

Be well.

Gassho
Shingen

Sat/LAH

[Amelia]

John,

I don't know if you are doing anything wrong, but it sounds like one of your left joints might be having some trouble. If it hurts, perhaps maybe a check up at the doctor to make sure that there isn't some underlying issue?

Gassho

Sat today, lah

[silence]

Hello

I have a question about sitting shikantaza.
Almost every time when I'm sitting, my left thumb hurts. Mainly the left joint hurts. Sometimes i am not able to stay my hands in this position.
Do you have any ideas what i am making wrong? Or what i can do better?

Thank you very much for your help!

Gassho
John

Sat today

[Jundo]

Re: Lesson 3
Thank you Jundo.
I have spinal disabilities and have to date metaphorically beaten myself up because I couldn't 'sit' Zazen properly. Depending on the day I 'sit' Zazen either in a chair or lying down. I will try it reclining and standing to see how that goes.
Thanks again Jundo. The Treeleaf Sangha member who suggested I visit Treeleaf gets a huge virtual hug from me for their recommendation. After only being a member for a week or so I have regained my belief that sometime in the future I may indeed be able to take/receive the Precepts despite my physical limitations.
Anna [emoji120]

Sent from my ZTE BLADE A125 using Tapatalk

Anna, the sitting is "proper" when the heart is at home in "sitting" (reclining etc.) such way, and the secret to that is between one's own ears. lf one feels at home, then one is at home.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Onka]

Re: Lesson 3
Thank you Jundo.
I have spinal disabilities and have to date metaphorically beaten myself up because I couldn't 'sit' Zazen properly. Depending on the day I 'sit' Zazen either in a chair or lying down. I will try it reclining and standing to see how that goes.
Thanks again Jundo. The Treeleaf Sangha member who suggested I visit Treeleaf gets a huge virtual hug from me for their recommendation. After only being a member for a week or so I have regained my belief that sometime in the future I may indeed be able to take/receive the Precepts despite my physical limitations.
Anna [emoji120]

Sent from my ZTE BLADE A125 using Tapatalk

[Ippo]

LEssons

I want to thank you again, Jundo-sensei. These lessons have been a blessing for me. I finally saw the final video today and will definitely review them all from time to time as solid reminders!

I have just finished video 6 in the beginner series. I have been sitting for many years and I am enjoying learning all that Jundo has to say. These lessons really are insightful and helps me to cultivate beginners mind. Looking forward to the rest of them.

Thank You Jundo and the Tree Leaf Sangha,

Gassho,

Brad

Sat Today