Zazen for Beginners Series: THREAD for QUESTIONS, COMMENTS

[ahaney]

I've went through all beginner videos for the first time. This was a great opportunity to get bit size teachings of zazen! Thank you so much for the opportunity to learn from you. I've also have been digging deep into the podcast " The Zen of Everything" which has given me even more opportunity to learn from you Jundo.
The forum is vast, where do you suggest a beginner go from here?

Gassho,
Alicia
Sat today

[AnGyo]

Greetings,
I can speak from my own personal experience to anyone struggling with pain during Zazen. I struggled with a lot of physical knee and back pain after military service. For me, when I also started a daily yoga practice, and eventually became a yoga teacher, I found that my Zazen also improved. My knee and back pain has become far less noticeable and now I can sit for much longer. Previously even 10 minutes was met with much pain. Now I can easily sit for an hour without much discomfort. I highly recommend either yoga, or anything that involves loosening the spine and stretching the body. It can be a tremendous supportive practice.

Gassho,
AnGyo
SatToday

[Tai Shi]

One can also sit Burmese style with a small bench. There are diagrams, suggestions on You Tube. I can't sit this away or on Zafu because of knee pain and Back pain and have purchased a straight back chair with arms but fork one who wishes more traditional style of sitting, Burmese may work.
Gassho
sat/lah

[Jundo]

There is no "good" or "bad" Zazen.

There is not good or bad Zazen. Zazen is always GOOD! ... both when it is good and clear and silent, and on those days when the mind is stormy and it is very very bad.

A key to Good Zazen is when we learn to sit in radical equanimity, leaping through "good vs. bad," yet with trust in our bones that this very moment of sitting Zazen is Good! just by sitting.

It is a very Good Koan!

Gassho, J

stlah

[Tomás ESP]

The sound is vibrations from outside, but the interpretation and emotional reaction is between our ears. In fact, the vibrations from Suzuki Roshi's mouth via video are interpreted by my brain as Wisdom.

This reminded me of the koan about whether it was the flag or the wind that was moving, and it was the mind that was moving. Thank you Jundo, I saw that video like 10 years ago, but it is always nice to come back to these teachings

Gassho, Tomás
Sat

[AnGyo]

I get it now. 2 days ago I had what you could say was a good Zazen sit. I saw the blue sky and the clouds. I was the mirror. Before it felt like "faking it." when sitting. Havent managed it since, but it's not important. I know it's there now, within me.

So my sensere thank you for your lessons, wisdom and insights.

Sorry to run long.

Gassho,
Artien
SatToday/LaH

There is no "good" or "bad" Zazen.

As Dogen said: "Do not think “good” or “bad.” Do not judge true or false. Give up the operations of mind, intellect, and consciousness; stop measuring with thoughts, ideas, and views.”

In Gassho,
AnGyo
SatToday

[Jundo]

While doing Shikantaza, I suddenly realized that all of the noise that I was hearing in that moment was from my own internal monologue. All of the images, self-referential conversation and anxiety dropped away and I was just there, sitting on the zafu, with nothing but the experience of sitting. As a beginner, knowing that there is an internal radio of self-chat that is endless is one thing, but actually experiencing reality without being completely absorbed and enticed by it... gave me confidence in the practice

Gassho, Tomás
Sat&LaH

Lovely. I am sure that you know Suzuki Roshi's little talks on sound and noise. The sound is vibrations from outside, but the interpretation and emotional reaction is between our ears.

In fact, the vibrations from Suzuki Roshi's mouth via video are interpreted by my brain as Wisdom.

https://youtu.be/pHNyCAJXUXE

Gassho, J

STLah

[Tomás ESP]

While doing Shikantaza, I suddenly realized that all of the noise that I was hearing in that moment was from my own internal monologue. All of the images, self-referential conversation and anxiety dropped away and I was just there, sitting on the zafu, with nothing but the experience of sitting. As a beginner, knowing that there is an internal radio of self-chat that is endless is one thing, but actually experiencing reality without being completely absorbed and enticed by it... gave me confidence in the practice

Gassho, Tomás
Sat&LaH

[Chikyou]

Hi Ross
A lot of people more knowledgeable than I have already responded, and of course Jundo has his own video in the sit-a-long series showing Burmese, but I found this to be quite useful, too, especially re where the weight distribution goes. I was also intrigued by the height of the zafu in this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xD_39Fomv-M

Gassho
Anna
satlah

This video is fantastic!!! He has a new way of explaining that really makes sense to me.

Gassho,
SatLah
Kelly

[Jundo]

In the beginner video number 14 about the 15 minute sit, there's a recommendation to attend a longer residential Sesshin each year. Is this recommendation for an actual in-person style retreat as opposed to our Rohatsu that is done from home?

If this recommendation is for old-school in person attendence, would it be best to find a soto Zen sangha or would the local mixed Zen center be okay?

Hi Aimee,

If someone's life, health, finances, work and family duties can allow, it is highly recommended to go to an extended retreat that lasts for several days, three days, or even a week or so. Online is fine, but residential is really powerful ... getting up with the sun, long hours of Zazen, Oryoki eating, work and more Zazen! If health and such allows, it can be a powerful experience.

Our Rohatsu is great, especially for people who cannot do so. Or even for people who can do so, then do both!

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

[Uran]

Good morning, good day, good evening dear friends [emoji92]

To give my mind a quiet point of focus during Shikantaza I sometimes picture the entire cosmos in the egg-shaped space created by my hands. As with the blue sky and the mirror, this imagery brings moments of quiet to my mind. Is there any reason to not include that in my sitting practice?

...

In the beginner video number 14 about the 15 minute sit, there's a recommendation to attend a longer residential Sesshin each year. Is this recommendation for an actual in-person style retreat as opposed to our Rohatsu that is done from home?

If this recommendation is for old-school in person attendence, would it be best to find a soto Zen sangha or would the local mixed Zen center be okay?

Apologies for running long. I am making use of the exception given to beginners.

Gassho [emoji1374]

Aimee B.
sat lah

[Jundo]

Hi Ross
A lot of people more knowledgeable than I have already responded, and of course Jundo has his own video in the sit-a-long series showing Burmese, but I found this to be quite useful, too, especially re where the weight distribution goes. I was also intrigued by the height of the zafu in this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xD_39Fomv-M

Gassho
Anna
satlah

That is a very good video to introduce the Burmese. Thank you.

My only comments are:

- He does say that, before getting an actual Zafu, one may sit on pillows. That is usually not so good unless the pillows, or a blanket (like Kotei makes here: https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/show...l=1#post280684) are tightly bound and supportive, because ordinary sofa or bed pillows are generally too squishy.

- The most important aspect of Burmese or any of the cross legged postures is getting the knees down to rest comfortably on the ground or Zabuton. Without that, there is strain on the body and the posture is unstable. It is also the most difficult aspect for many of us "thunder thighed" westerners, in my experience. Stretches and giving it time help, but it is hard for many foreigners to attain that nice, stable knee placement shown in the video without time and stretching and patience and, sometimes, losing a few pounds (it is just true.)

Gassho, J

STLah

[Tai Shi]

For sitting with eyes open. This is possible when I sit because my eyes are not all the way open or closed, and I keep my eyes at about 1/4 open, and very occasional blinking is not bad but rather like straitening one's glasses. Not a problem.
Gassho
sat/lah

[ZenKen]

Anyone got any tips from transitioning from sitting in seiza to burmese? I'm quite an athletic person but have always had awful flexibility...

When I first tried sitting, I got my sitting all wrong (not understanding what 'acceptable' sitting positions were) and was sitting in a generaly cross legged position (I understand why it's not recommended as it was not nice to sit in for such a long period of time...). Once I realised this was wrong, I just sat in seiza, as I couldn't do anything else. I was trying to improve this but quite quickly injured my hip , so held off for a while.

As I don't really have any real medical conditions or bad injuries, feel I should be able to sit in a position that requires more flexibility with a bit of effort. I have a fairly decent knowledge of things like this as I'm a PE teacher and practiced yoga on and off for a few years. Looking more for specific stretches in a yoga routine or modified sitting positions that I could do while reading or relaxing. Or even some tips that might help actually sitting burmese a bit easier.

Just tried sitting in burmese now though, and it's the closest I've ever been to sitting in an almost comfortable position, but wouldn't be able to do it for more than 5 minutes still

* Edited just to say it feels like my right psoas is really tight when sitting burmese, so seems like a problem relating to that

Sorry to run long

Gassho
Ross
stlah

Hi Ross
A lot of people more knowledgeable than I have already responded, and of course Jundo has his own video in the sit-a-long series showing Burmese, but I found this to be quite useful, too, especially re where the weight distribution goes. I was also intrigued by the height of the zafu in this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xD_39Fomv-M

Gassho
Anna
satlah

[Artien]

Jundo mentioned my personal mistake; I tried too hard to stare at "nothing" basically forcing my eyes to focus on the wall that's in front of my eyes. That was not conformtable and irritated my eyes. Now I focus much more on my breath (nose) and while doing that I probably relax my eyes further than most people, I can still see through it (I'd say they are about 80-85% closed?). At the same time, it feels natural for my eyes so I just go with it.

Sorry for running long, wanted to add my beginner experience mistake.

Gassho,
Artien
Satlah