Zazen for Beginners Series: THREAD for QUESTIONS, COMMENTS

[Onka]

Anna, the sitting is "proper" when the heart is at home in "sitting" (reclining etc.) such way, and the secret to that is between one's own ears. lf one feels at home, then one is at home.

Gassho, J

STLah

Jundo
May I ask how I should have my hands while doing Zazen both standing and lying down.
Anna.

ST/LAH

Sent from my ZTE BLADE A125 using Tapatalk

[Jundo]

Jundo
May I ask how I should have my hands while doing Zazen both standing and lying down.
Anna.

ST/LAH

Sent from my ZTE BLADE A125 using Tapatalk

Hi Anna,

I echo what others have said. Our usual position (Mudra) of the hands during Zazen is this, and I bet that you are just too forceful, and not relaxed, in holding your fingers lightly together.

The hands should be like Suzuki Roshi here ... very light, low pressure, not too loose or too tight ...



The hands should rest in the lap, not be up in the air or on the chest. It is okay to put cloths, a small towel or pillow under the hands if they don't rest in the lap nicely. (Sometimes I see folks who hold it high up on the chest or resting on their pot belly, and I don't recommend that usually).

The whole sitting posture of the entire body should be upright and balanced, but relaxed and nice ... not too lose or too tight.

Our other main hand position is for walking Kinhin (walking Zazen) called Shashu, held in the middle of the chest while walking.



There is a little more description in our Guide to Basic Sitting (PDF) which I sent you in the "Welcome" email.

https://sites.google.com/site/jundotreeleaf/TreeleafBasicZazenInstructions.pdf?attredirects=0&d=1

I have some early arthritis in my fingers, so I can empathize.

Gassho, Jundo

[Onka]

I'm afraid you answered John's question Mundo not mine.
Respectfully, Anna
Sat today/LAH

[silence]

They are so many good ideas!
Thank you very much for your help.

Gassho
John

Sat today

[Kendrick]

Just finished sitting after Lesson 3. I have been watching a lesson each night before I sit, though I did the order as 1,2,4,3 so far (because I had less time last night and saved the longer lesson I skipped over for tonight).

Jundo,

Thank you greatly for the teaching. In Lesson 3 you mentioned the siatic nerve as a source of tingling/numbness - tonight I sat Burmese for the first time for zazen (I have always sat Half-Lotus). Usually my top leg will go numb after 15-20 minutes. Not a game-stopper during zazen at all but the standing up when finished, yikes! I found Burmese very comfortable, and I will be trying it some more in my sitting. Even so, tonight BOTH legs went probably 75% numb. Having tried this and had that result, and after watching the video, I think I have narrowed my search for the issue causing the numbness now. I have always sat with a small rectangular, stiff, kapok filled meditation cushion. In Burmese, I think my knees relaxed more into the floor which put more pressure on both of my legs, and that nerve, over the edge of my cushion. I am going to find a traditional round zafu (probably buckwheat filled) soon and see how that goes. I think the softer zafu without the harsh edges pressing into my legs may help.

Gassho
Kendrick
SatToday and LAH

[Jundo]

Just finished sitting after Lesson 3. I have been watching a lesson each night before I sit, though I did the order as 1,2,4,3 so far (because I had less time last night and saved the longer lesson I skipped over for tonight).

Jundo,

Thank you greatly for the teaching. In Lesson 3 you mentioned the siatic nerve as a source of tingling/numbness - tonight I sat Burmese for the first time for zazen (I have always sat Half-Lotus). Usually my top leg will go numb after 15-20 minutes. Not a game-stopper during zazen at all but the standing up when finished, yikes! I found Burmese very comfortable, and I will be trying it some more in my sitting. Even so, tonight BOTH legs went probably 75% numb. Having tried this and had that result, and after watching the video, I think I have narrowed my search for the issue causing the numbness now. I have always sat with a small rectangular, stiff, kapok filled meditation cushion. In Burmese, I think my knees relaxed more into the floor which put more pressure on both of my legs, and that nerve, over the edge of my cushion. I am going to find a traditional round zafu (probably buckwheat filled) soon and see how that goes. I think the softer zafu without the harsh edges pressing into my legs may help.

Gassho
Kendrick
SatToday and LAH

Yes, experiment, experiment ... hard and soft, round, high or low Zafu, sitting a bit more forward or back, looser pants, shifting weight a bit when the symptoms start.

Please report back what you find the key for your body. I bet the square cushion is a cause.

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

[Dean Weaver]

Hi guys

I just finished watching episode 3 of the beginners course, regarding how to sit. Is there a particular reason why one cant sit cross-legged?

[Mp]

Hi guys

I just finished watching episode 3 of the beginners course, regarding how to sit. Is there a particular reason why one cant sit cross-legged?

Hey Dean,

If one sat in the standard cross legged position, with the one foot tucked under the leg that foot would fall asleep for one. Second, it actually doesn't create a solid balanced foundation, as they hips will be tilted to the one side.

Have you tired to Burmese position? You can see it in the top right.

meditation-poses.jpg

Gassho
Shingen

Sat/LAH

[Tai Shi]

It is my intent to review all the videos in order. I have been just sitting Shikantaza for five years this coming October, and I am but a novice. I believe I am running on my own autopilot. It is time to review. The hand pictures were most helpful because I have severe arthritis in my spine which has moved out into my hands. I am 67 so less strength is predictable, but now I think can relax into hand positions that help me. I have discovered a method of dual support in a straight back chair, back against chair, left shoulder against wall such that I am supported into proper posture without strain on my spine. Since the spine is the location of most of my pain especially neck, I can let my breath happen without so much work and allow nostrils without mouth to breathe. In group computer sits, It's best that I sit before screen in an office chair with arms, so I don't fall out of the chair on my left. All this is for older, and disabled members.

Tai Shi
sat/lah
Gassho

[Kendrick]

Yes, experiment, experiment ... hard and soft, round, high or low Zafu, sitting a bit more forward or back, looser pants, shifting weight a bit when the symptoms start.

Please report back what you find the key for your body. I bet the square cushion is a cause.

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

Jundo,

I received my new zafu and zabuton a few days ago. I chose to try a traditional round, buckwheat hull stuffed zafu and thicker kapok filled (but soft) zabuton. I have been sitting mostly Burmese now as well. These changes have helped tremendously! I barely get any tingling or numbness going on now and what minor bit may occur goes away immediately upon standing (no long lasting numbness of rush of sensation/pain when I get up now). I removed a bit of fill from the zafu after my first zazen with it and that improved it for me too.

I was able to sit my first Zazenkai tonight without pain thanks to the changes. Thank you!

Gassho /\
Kendrick
SatTonight/LAH

[Tai Shi]

Jundo,

I received my new zafu and zabuton a few days ago. I chose to try a traditional round, buckwheat hull stuffed zafu and thicker kapok filled (but soft) zabuton. I have been sitting mostly Burmese now as well. These changes have helped tremendously! I barely get any tingling or numbness going on now and what minor bit may occur goes away immediately upon standing (no long lasting numbness of rush of sensation/pain when I get up now). I removed a bit of fill from the zafu after my first zazen with it and that improved it for me too.

I was able to sit my first Zazenkai tonight without pain thanks to the changes. Thank you!

Gassho /\
Kendrick
SatTonight/LAH

Hello Jundo, I have what is called a Buddhist chair cushion, from Amazon, and it is a wedge, larger side facing out from legs places back against strait back chair such that with proper distance feet to floor, back against chair easily, and as I said a Buddhist chair cushion, $40, my wife helped me purchase. I think it may come from a Buddhist supply company or even a monastery. It has been helpful on my back bottom side. I believe with left shoulder supported, I sit proper chair formation, and from Bring the Sacred to Life, the daily practice of Zen Ritual, John Daido Loori, Shambhala. 2008, I am beginning to learn much. I highly recommend this little book-- 122 pages--

Gassho
sat
Tai Shi

[Jundo]

Jundo,

I received my new zafu and zabuton a few days ago. I chose to try a traditional round, buckwheat hull stuffed zafu and thicker kapok filled (but soft) zabuton. I have been sitting mostly Burmese now as well. These changes have helped tremendously! I barely get any tingling or numbness going on now and what minor bit may occur goes away immediately upon standing (no long lasting numbness of rush of sensation/pain when I get up now). I removed a bit of fill from the zafu after my first zazen with it and that improved it for me too.

I was able to sit my first Zazenkai tonight without pain thanks to the changes. Thank you!

Gassho /\
Kendrick
SatTonight/LAH

Good!

Gassho, J

STLah

[Shinshi]

I have a question about protocol / correct form when sitting Zazen seiza style - either using the Zafu or a bench.

I am one of the least flexible people on the planet and I gave up trying to sit any other way than seiza back in the 90s. What I do currently is that I follow the steps as outlined in Video 12 except that rather than sit and rotate I just kind of climb up on my Zafu like an Ox climbing over a rock. Not very elegant.

I have tried sitting, rotating and then re-arranging but it feels a little cumbersome, and how would that even work with a bench?

So I was wondering if there is a correct form for settling into the seiza position at the beginning of Zazen.

Gassho, Shinshi

SaT-LaH

[Jundo]

I have a question about protocol / correct form when sitting Zazen seiza style - either using the Zafu or a bench.

I am one of the least flexible people on the planet and I gave up trying to sit any other way than seiza back in the 90s. What I do currently is that I follow the steps as outlined in Video 12 except that rather than sit and rotate I just kind of climb up on my Zafu like an Ox climbing over a rock. Not very elegant.

I have tried sitting, rotating and then re-arranging but it feels a little cumbersome, and how would that even work with a bench?

So I was wondering if there is a correct form for settling into the seiza position at the beginning of Zazen.

Gassho, Shinshi

SaT-LaH

Hi,

I would say that, since this is not really a traditional form of sitting, but rather a lovely posture that has become common in recent decades for those with physical need, that you are free to create your own new "tradition."

Perhaps you can consider how to get seated practically, but also with some eye for being as balanced and graceful as possible in moving. I leave it to you. Also, add as many of the traditional elements as possible, such as Gassho toward the wall and room, turning always clockwise, fluffing the cushion with the two fingers and thumb of each hand ...

All traditions of the past started just so.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Shinshi]

Hi,

I would say that, since this is not really a traditional form of sitting, but rather a lovely posture that has become common in recent decades for those with physical need, that you are free to create your own new "tradition."

Perhaps you can consider how to get seated practically, but also with some eye for being as balanced and graceful as possible in moving. I leave it to you. Also, add as many of the traditional elements as possible, such as Gassho toward the wall and room, turning always clockwise, fluffing the cushion with the two fingers and thumb of each hand ...

All traditions of the past started just so.

Gassho, J

STLah

Thank you Jundo. I do follow all the other traditional steps when I sit. I will see if I can come up with something at least a little graceful - but really isn't one of my areas of strength.

Gassho, Shinshi

SaT-LaH