Zazen for Beginners Series: THREAD for QUESTIONS, COMMENTS

[Jundo]

Gassho Jundo, I have a question for yourself, or anyone else that may have a solution. I have trouble keeping my eyes 3/4 shut, due to dry-eye. This poses a distraction.
Does anyone have experience with this, and what was your solution?

Sat Today
Gassho, Steve

Hi Steve,

Well, blink normally, and just keep your eyes ordinary, just about half open. No need to stay fixed on one spot either.

I sometimes compare it to driving a country road ...

Drivin' Dogen - Understanding "Open Spacious Awareness"

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?16743-Drivin-Dogen-Understanding-Open-Spacious-Awareness

We are not doing anything particularly strained with the eyes. Let me know if that helps.

Gassho, Jundo

stlah

[Houzan]

Gassho Jundo, I have a question for yourself, or anyone else that may have a solution. I have trouble keeping my eyes 3/4 shut, due to dry-eye. This poses a distraction.
Does anyone have experience with this, and what was your solution?

Sat Today
Gassho, Steve

I am sure Jundo or someone else will come along and give some proper guidance.
Meanwhile, maybe this is a helpful thread:

Zazen with closed eyes?

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?share_fid=15740&share_tid=18152&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Etreeleaf%2Eorg%2Fforums%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D18152&share_type=t&link_source=app

Gassho, Michael
Satlah

[Steve Rossiter]

Gassho Jundo, I have a question for yourself, or anyone else that may have a solution. I have trouble keeping my eyes 3/4 shut, due to dry-eye. This poses a distraction.
Does anyone have experience with this, and what was your solution?

Sat Today
Gassho, Steve

[Jundo]

Thank you Jundo, this makes sense to me. Placing awareness on the hara has been a useful "training wheels" process for me in my very beginning stages (and has felt natural from my singing and woodwind training). I really appreciate how much Treeleaf is focused on open awareness and that is definitely a "goalless goal" for me.

Gassho,
Gooey

sat/LAH

Hi Gooey,

Oh, my mother was a professional Jazz singer with opera training, so I also believe in the value of nice, deep breathing "from the diaphragm." In Zazen, we just breathe naturally, nothing forced, breathing at our own natural pace, but do appreciate breaths which open the diaphragm.

The Hara is near the body's center of gravity, in my understanding from martial artists, so is important to have in mind in movement.

But that is very different from saying that the Hara is actually the center of some mysterious "ki" energy, or that we actually breathe from down there (a condition which, if actually happening, would be grounds to call an ambulance!) My wife, a 5th Dan in Aikido, seems to agree with me on the above.

Gassho, J

stlah

[Gooey]

Thank you Jundo, this makes sense to me. Placing awareness on the hara has been a useful "training wheels" process for me in my very beginning stages (and has felt natural from my singing and woodwind training). I really appreciate how much Treeleaf is focused on open awareness and that is definitely a "goalless goal" for me.

Gassho,
Gooey

sat/LAH

[Jundo]

I finished watching this series a little while ago and am still finding things to reflect on. Thank you Jundo for such clear and thoughtful instructions. I especially found the "not grabbing the thoughts" (number 7) and "drifting clouds" (number 9) very helpful, as well as the idea of different "channels" (that are still all part of the same whole). I've also been thinking about the idea of awareness from the hara. I wrote this as a somewhat clumsy way to try to capture a bit of where my understanding is at so far:

Tune into hara
This channel plays clear blue sky
24/7

Sorry for running long!

Gassho,
Gooey

sat/LAH

Hi Gooey,

Some folks place the attention on the Hara during Zazen, or just follow the breath, or just feel the whole body sitting. I am more of an "open awareness" fellow, who just places the attention kind of into open space, no particular place at all. All are fine. I think that, based on old ideas of Chinese medicine, some folks emphasize the Hara too much, as an energy center of the body. I don't know about that, and we tend not to emphasize the Hara too much around our Sangha.

Gassho, Jundo

stlah

[Gooey]

I finished watching this series a little while ago and am still finding things to reflect on. Thank you Jundo for such clear and thoughtful instructions. I especially found the "not grabbing the thoughts" (number 7) and "drifting clouds" (number 9) very helpful, as well as the idea of different "channels" (that are still all part of the same whole). I've also been thinking about the idea of awareness from the hara. I wrote this as a somewhat clumsy way to try to capture a bit of where my understanding is at so far:

Tune into hara
This channel plays clear blue sky
24/7

Sorry for running long!

Gassho,
Gooey

sat/LAH

[k1982]

Beginner's series finished...wanted to take my time with these lessons, get a flavor for the teachings here, make sure to sit at the end of each video.

My experience is probably best conveyed through a paraphrasing of a conversation I had with my wife yesterday while doing the dishes.

Me: "Just finished up the beginner's series Jundo made."
Wife: "Any more blender videos?"
Me: "No but he made a short one from downtown, lots of people walking around him! And one from his car."
Wife: "Does he like making loud videos?"
Me: "Not necessarily. The one from his bathtub was pretty quiet."
Wife: "Oh that's ni....I'm sorry the one from his what?"

Definitely looking forward to getting involved with more of the practice here!

Gassho,
Kyle
stlah

[Do Mi]

Dear Jundo,

I finished watching these videos a while ago and they continue to inform my zazen practice every day. The combination of supportiveness and acceptance of conditions, your steadfast teaching of shikantaza, and the metaphors, helps me so much. Especially the blender and the floating poster, which when recalled seem to click me right into a state of relaxed alertness in which some space between elephants can arise... But lots of elephants are okay too, I just keep climbing off and waving goodbye... and am so grateful to understand that this is also "good zazen."

Believing in my bones in the completeness of zazen as the embodiment of Buddha is a little more elusive. I read your teachings often enough to be reminded!

I am doing zazen every day, usually before bed although I'm trying to do more in the afternoon, and to jump in with the Treeleaf group more. I also sit with my local sangha twice a week, and am figuring out how deeply to be involved there.

So I just wanted to express my gratitude for your teachings and to Dogen and all the teachers for this incredible practice.

In gassho,

Do Mi
satlah

[Jundo]

Hi Lannan!

[Tokan]

I registered a while ago, and life, as it does, has gotten busy. (We're buying our first house this year.) I've been thinking more and more about what my practice will look like without in-person sangha once we move, and remembered I'd joined Treeleaf. It was definitely the time to start watching Jundo's videos, and I'm really enjoying them. I'm 4 videos in and the straightforwardness is really speaking to me!

I've been doing zazen with a local sangha and while I very much enjoy that too, there's something about the way Jundo teaches and has Treeleaf organized that really makes me think that my current sangha isn't quite reaching the neurodiverse as well as it might otherwise. There's much to the way relationships develop in a sangha, the way we're assumed to interact with the teachers, that has me baffled in a way that keeps me quiet and watchful, as if there's something I'm missing and need to pay closer attention to. But it could very well be less my neurodivergence and more my inhospitable working schedule that means I only see everyone for Sunday zazenkai.

Either way, I'm looking forward to delving further into this series of talks.

Good to have you around Lannan

Gassho, Tokan (satlah)

[Lannan]

I registered a while ago, and life, as it does, has gotten busy. (We're buying our first house this year.) I've been thinking more and more about what my practice will look like without in-person sangha once we move, and remembered I'd joined Treeleaf. It was definitely the time to start watching Jundo's videos, and I'm really enjoying them. I'm 4 videos in and the straightforwardness is really speaking to me!

I've been doing zazen with a local sangha and while I very much enjoy that too, there's something about the way Jundo teaches and has Treeleaf organized that really makes me think that my current sangha isn't quite reaching the neurodiverse as well as it might otherwise. There's much to the way relationships develop in a sangha, the way we're assumed to interact with the teachers, that has me baffled in a way that keeps me quiet and watchful, as if there's something I'm missing and need to pay closer attention to. But it could very well be less my neurodivergence and more my inhospitable working schedule that means I only see everyone for Sunday zazenkai.

Either way, I'm looking forward to delving further into this series of talks.

[Tai Shi]

As I rise in the morning, I use saline solution with lubricant specifically made for eyes. It's best to check with your doctor. This is a solution strongly recommended by doctor.
Gassho
sat lah

[k1982]

Sit-a-Long with Jundo: Zazen for Beginners (1) / Impressions

I very much enjoyed the blasting noise from the blender as the introduction. What a wonderful and unique way to grab the viewer's attention. I've sat a long time in many places and this was the most captivating introduction I have ever seen ! Very much appreciate the reminder to keep a beginner's mind as well. Looking forward to delving into the next videos.

-Kyle

[Erinis]

Yes, Zen sitting is what I call "non-effort," "non-trying." That does not mean that we are not sitting nicely, with a balanced, comfortable posture, letting thoughts go. Rather, we "relax" into doing so. I have tried to think of analogies, and the best I can think of is like a tightrope walker who actually has to take care and pay attention, but also totally relax to cross the wire, because stress and strain is what will be his defeat. Or the sword master who is not careless, but also must not think of life and death in combat, and actually must semi-relax and just do. Or maybe like learning to ride a bike, which is literally child's play when we finally learn to relax and just ride (but is scary, unpleasant, dangerous and off balance when we panic and are too tight as a beginning rider). Something like that. It is an influence of the Chinese and Japanese knew as Wu-Wei (Mu-i) ...

HOWEVER, one CAUTION about Wu-Wei!! Don't then stress and strain to stay "Wu-Wei!" Nor should you try to ALWAYS be "Wu-Wei." That would be as silly as stressing and straining to achieve relaxing! Just let "Wu-Wei" happen naturally, when it happens, and so do not try to force it always. Even more, do not think that "this is bad Zazen" when not "Wu-Wei." Zazen is always good, just like sometimes it is raining, sometimes sunny, sometimes snowing or stormy ... but the sky is always present.

Also, one more analogy I recently came up with for "acceptance without acceptance." Suppose there is a life situation that is causing you natural worry or sadness, like your cat dies, the bills are not paid, you are worried about a medical test ... Our brains are hard-wired to feel some grief or fear sometimes, and (although EXCESS or constant panic and depression are not healthy, and that is different) ordinary sadness and fear is human and okay.

However, imagine that one chamber of your heart is filled with RADICAL acceptance, completion and equanimity, flowing with conditions, as we taste sometimes in Zazen. Then imagine that the other chamber is filled with that natural worry or sadness. Both beat together in the one heart, mixing and oxygenating each other, becoming a single flow of life through us. That is "accepting-non-accepting."



Gassho, J

stlah

Thank you for bringing it closer to me to better understand it . Lately I've tried far too much be Wu-Wei with attempt to control Wu-wei itself, although I am not surprised, I failed, I still do struggle with being natural and let go of things, just like you mentioned on the example with bike. But I am sure I will or am learning to ride a bike.

I have decided to no longer making notes of Zazen in the terms of discriminating mind, it's just as it is, sometimes sunny sometimes rainy or snowy. But although I don't write it, I still to certain extent judge it, it's simply our human nature to analyse, or rather survive, or not? Sometimes I wonder when I say or hear anybody to utter resolute statement, have to chuckle in heart

I hope the text isn't much disorganised, monkey mind jumps from one thing to another.

Gassho, Erinis
Sat Today