Spiritual Friendship

[RichardH]

Treeleaf is a community. A practice community. If it was just another Buddhist forum it would not be worth participating in. A Buddhist forum is where people argue about what they think is true, and play-out endless doubting and dissecting. I came here and want to settle here as my "neighborhood Zendo" after seeing the nature of Buddhist fora, from both the participant and the administration side. They are frequently the last place someone who wants to get on with practice should be .... always having more words... always having another comeback. The heart of this community, in my worthless opinion, is the group practice and its development using new media. That last thing I need another Buddhist forum.

Gassho, kojip

[Dosho]

I hear you Chet and understand completely. That said, drop your opinions about what is best. Drop your view of how long you have been buddhist. Drop the questioning including whether what you are doing is good or why it's good. Drop examining how much of your identity is involved in holding too tightly.

Just drop it all. Can you do that for a day? A week? Whatever you can manage...then see how you feel on the other side. I cannot overstate how important I feel this is and would actually recommend it for at least a year. But we all have a our challenges and I only advise this because it's what I did for so long. But until I dropped it I was lost.

Gassho,
Dosho

Dosho,

Examining is BEST at the beginning of something, but my practice is not so new. I've been a practicing Buddhist for 19 years.

And I AM sitting - nearly daily (sometimes in between 12 hour shifts I just fall asleep before I can sit). But I'm questioning everything, including the idea that daily practice is inherently a good thing and why it's a good thing. I'm doing it, but I'm not doing it because I feel I must.

I'm trying to examine just how much of my identity is involved in holding too tightly to beliefs about this practice.

And to Nindo: I'm very sorry I hijacked the thread - it just brought up some stuff for me.

Chet

[Shokai]

Kojip wrote:

The heart of this community..... is the group practice and its development using new media.

and I tend to agree

Dosho wrote:

But until I dropped it I was lost.

and he's sincere

Nindo wrote:

There are a few Dharma mothers and fathers, brothers and sisters in my life. I don't take them for granted. Sincere practice is an act of gratitude towards them. That's all the initial post was pointing at.

gassho, Shokai

Thank you all for sharing your practice

[Mp]

... drop your opinions about what is best. Drop your view of how long you have been buddhist. Drop the questioning including whether what you are doing is good or why it's good. Drop examining how much of your identity is involved in holding too tightly.

... But until I dropped it I was lost.

Thank you Dosho ...

Gassho
Michael

[Kaishin]

Thanks you for sharing, and being here


Gassho, Kaishin / Matt

[Daitetsu]

Hi Kojip,

Treeleaf is a community. A practice community. If it was just another Buddhist forum it would not be worth participating in. A Buddhist forum is where people argue about what they think is true, and play-out endless doubting and dissecting. I came here and want to settle here as my "neighborhood Zendo" after seeing the nature of Buddhist fora, from both the participant and the administration side. They are frequently the last place someone who wants to get on with practice should be .... always having more words... always having another comeback. The heart of this community, in my worthless opinion, is the group practice and its development using new media. That last thing I need another Buddhist forum.

I think this really sums it up more or less!
Before I came here I had visited several Zen online boards (in different languages), and I was very disappointed that there was no difference to other online boards. (I had been moderator in an online forum years ago and it was just crazy, you wouldn't believe it). Lots of people seeking attention, even people who seemed fond of arguing. And the one thing I had expected least from Zen folks: lots of attachments - my school is better, that sect just doesn't get it, you must reach, reach, reach enlightenment, oh nooo he just said the forbidden "E" word! I felt almost appalled.
I kind of accepted I would carry on practising on my own when I stumbled upon Treeleaf. And it was the place I knew I would feel comfortable with. It is like an internet Zen oasis.

Still, I agree with Chet that we should check/review our own practice from time to time. I personally don't want to be attached to it. As soon as I feel I can't live without it any more, then I know something is probably wrong.

Gassho,

Timo

[Daisho]

Im fairly new here and spend spend quite a bit of time wandering around Treeleaf all hours of day and night. I feel a sense of community and certainly evidence of caring for sanga members. If a thread begins to feel to me lost in "hairsplitting" or maybe just not pertinent to me at the time, I move on. If I've got a question I ask it and know it will be answered usually sooner than later My tendency is to get stuck in detail so part of my practice here is to keep moving and listening to what u all have to say. And, yes, Nindo, gratitude plays a big part in being a member o this sanga and having the spiritual friends who are in my life.

[Jundo]

Dear All,

Chet (Disastermouse), against my recommendation that he stay, has said he needs to "step away" from participation here. I am sorry to hear that, and encouraged him to stay. I also wrote him that he is welcome back at any time. I believe that, over the years he has been a member here, this is not the first time. I deactivated his account, so he cannot receive PMs at this time (should anyone wish to write him, I will take the liberty of passing on his email if you write me).

I do not usually comment on someone's personal motivations, and need to be very careful here. Also, we are now looking at Precepts on being critical in our Jukai study. However, I want to make a general statement here given some of the things said in this thread.

In this community, we do not "proselytize", neither trying to chase people into Zen Practice or this Sangha, nor chasing after folks once they leave. In fact, this Practice or Place is not right for everyone, and people have different paths and needs. This Sangha, Zen, all Buddhism may not be "right" for someone or most people.

However, before someone asserts that "this practice" or "this community" are not right, they need to really give the "old college try" to all the aspects of Practice here before rejecting the same. If someone, whether here for 5 minutes or 5 years (no matter), does not particularly join in any of our group sittings or gatherings (other than chatting away on this forum, which is meant to be merely a side support to all the other aspects of active Practice), avoids Jukai, Precepts study or sewing without even trying, avoids or has never sat a long retreat (either here or at a "brick and wood" Sangha), pops in and out of the community at one's convenience, avoids any Practice too inconvenient or not to one's tastes without diving in for at least awhile, never particularly volunteers to help out around the place or roll up one's sleeves to help organize things, and is principally focused on their own complaints and "needs" instead of helping the other sentient beings ... one is not perhaps properly situated and experienced to conclude "this place is not what I need it to be". One cannot know that because one never really tried "this place".

I am not talking about Chet here, but all of us ... even folks here since the days the doors opened.

This is a good time to post for newcomers what I usually say about "the college try" and need to trust in this Practice at the start ...

I believe that starting off in Buddhist practice takes a certain amount of "trust & dedication" (a term I actually prefer to "faith" because of all the baggage that "faith" carries for many folks coming out of a Judeo-Christian background). At the outset, one has to trust that there is something to what our practice and philosophy is about, because one yet has no personal experience and must just go on the assumption that the teachings and teachers and books are reliable.

We need the same faith the first time we try anything without personal experience. Even a cake recipe from a book requires a certain trust in the recipe and the book's authors, although sooner or later that recipe must prove itself in the real baking. Same with these Practices and Teachings, which require some trust, effort and open-mindedness until actually proven in our lives. The Buddha said as much in many of the oldest Suttas.

Maybe someone should give any Practice ... from sitting to sewing to chanting to bowing to whatever ... at least six (6) good, solid sincere months before forming any opinions (especially about our way of dropping effort and opinions! ). One might be here for 6 years, but never really even tried some things for 6 months.

In order to really know ... one must really try, really try-non-trying.

Gassho, Jundo

[Mp]

Jundo, thank you for letting us know ... I wish all the best to Chet and hopefully one day we will see him here again.

Gassho
Michael

[Yugen]

I'm sorry Chet has decided to take a hiatus - his dedication to making an effort at sitting on G+ has given my own practice some spine and I respect his effort and sincerity. I may not always agree with what he has to say, but I do not doubt his sincerity, his seeking. I know it has been difficult to face a regular practice, and Chet has been making an effort. I thank you Chet, my practice has benefited from your presence. Fair winds and see you when we see you -

Gassho
Yugen

[George]

Maybe someone should give any Practice ... from sitting to sewing to chanting to bowing to whatever ... at least six (6) good, solid sincere months before forming any opinions (especially about our way of dropping effort and opinions! ). One might be here for 6 years, but never really even tried some things for 6 months.

Extremely wise and important point.

I think a lot of us who "try" Buddhism can be put off at first by the seemingly religious apsect of it and can be a little prejudiced against those parts of Buddhism that do make sense immediately.

One group I attended for a while made quite a big thing about being reborn and the different realms and the deities/gods. This put me off most of the traditional Buddhist art involving deities until a monk at another group talked through his understanding of his favourite tankha of Avalokiteshvara and his understanding of the symbolic rather than literal meaning within.

After taking me more than two years to be able to appreciate a single picture I have tried thereafter not to judge practices that have helped others for hundreds of years. Incidentally the same monk helped me to understand chanting and I now have a few chants on my iPod but I am still waiting for the whole bowing thing to feel right/make sense.

[Dosho]

Chet (Disastermouse), against my recommendation that he stay, has said he needs to "step away" from participation here. I am sorry to hear that, and encouraged him to stay. I also wrote him that he is welcome back at any time. I believe that, over the years he has been a member here, this is not the first time. I deactivated his account, so he cannot receive PMs at this time (should anyone wish to write him, I will take the liberty of passing on his email if you write me).

[Myoku]

..what Dosho just said
_()_
Myoku

[Daitetsu]

Although I've not been here for long, I will miss him.
Very often he brought in different aspects, opinions, and ways to see things - and he dared to express them.
I do hope he comes back...

[RichardH]

Hope he comes back too. I know what it feels like to be holding a position, and the whole thing becoming more intense by being opposed and feeling isolated. It's painful, and I just want to disappear after the dust settles.

Gassho. kojip