Informal Reading Group: REALIZING GENJOKOAN 2021 Edition Begins Week of 11 April 2021

[Inshin]

Love the questions! They lead me to more questions

1. What is dharma?

The Ultimate
Buddha's teaching
Phenomena

2. Does realization require delusion?

Shunryū Suzuki in "Not Always So" mentions that our practice has to be rooted in delusion.
But can you really ever fully get rid of delusion considering how our minds work?
Isn't it a little bit like in this sort of sleep paralysis that you realise you're dreaming and you don't like the dream so you desperately try to wake up. When you wake up, after a short relief you realise that you "woke up" in another dream and it goes on and on...

3. What is the self?

I think I've asked myself a question "Who am I" when I was around 13 years old. 23 years later I'm no wiser. Christianity didn't offer answers, Buddhist enquiry so far revealed what I'm not. I can relate to the statement that “deep awareness of the fact that the existence of the self is not a personal possession.” Throughout the whole experience of life so far one thing is certain : the sense of "I am". However even that is not constant as I "lose" this sense every time when falling asleep. Is there a source to "I am"?

4. Do realization and delusion exist among all sentient beings, or only humans?

There are stories in Buddhism of animals who showed great sacrifice and compassion and as a result were born as a human in next life. There are examples of Bodhisattvas purposely choosing to be reborn in animal realms to carry on Dharma.

5. Dōgen writes that there are inexhaustible characteristics in what is beyond what we can see, and also within what is right in front of us. How is this borne out or refuted by the advancement of scientific knowledge?

Isn't scientific knowledge another form of consciousness?
Imagine you are stuck in a room and you don't change anything in it. Depending on the state of your perception and mind the room will appear different : in zazen the room will be different than if you were to sit in there under influence of alcohol, again it would be different if you were sitting there on psychodelics, or sober and bored, or sober and involved in thoughts... Which you and the room are the true ones?

Gassho
Sat

[Kiri]

Hello guys!
Quick question: How would you describe delusion?
Gassho, Nikolas
Sat/Lah

[Zenkon]

I'm joining late, but look forward to participating

[Onkai]

Hello guys!
Quick question: How would you describe delusion?
Gassho, Nikolas
Sat/Lah

I think of delusion as not perceiving reality as it is, or how it works, including seeing things through the lens of strong emotion or self interest. That is the most obvious meaning to me, and there may be a deeper definition, and I'd like to know what it is.

Gassho,
Onkai
Sat/lah

[Onkai]

The above may not be what you were asking. If so, I apologize. I think delusion can be experienced in countless ways, but leads to suffering.

Gassho,
Onkai,
Sat/lah

[Shokai]

basically, not knowing of emptiness, i.e. impermanence and interconnectedness of all dharmas

gassho, Shokai
stlah

[Kiri]

Thank you Onkai and Shokai! I like and agree with both of your answers
Gassho, Nikolas
Sat/Lah

[Tairin]

What is the self?

This is a question I find I don’t ask myself nearly as much as I used to. I know longer see it as a critical question to get an answer to. I am not sure if it is this practice or age (or more likely both) that has changed my perspective. Certainly getting married changed my view of self. Suddenly my self extended to another person. What I did, thought, or said had an impact on my wife and vice versa. Becoming a father pushed that border even further. Now there was yet another being that while separate wasn’t exactly separate from me. If I extend that I see that my self expands around me, to and from. My self is extended by my karmic actions. I think this is what Jundo refers to as “softening the hard edges”.

Thank you for the discussion


Tairin
Sat today and lah

[JimInBC]

1. What is dharma?

What isn't?

2. Does realization require delusion?

When I answer yes, it comes from delusion.
When I answer no, it comes from delusion.
When I disappears, so does the question.

3. What is the self?

The cracks, crevices, and rough spots the flow of reality gets caught on.

4. Do realization and delusion exist among all sentient beings, or only humans?

When a human claims to know a lion's mind, he's lying.

Gassho, Jim
ST/LaH


Sent from my SM-T510 using Tapatalk

[Risho]

Jim - I like those answers quite a bit.

1. What is dharma? Traditionally, the historical Buddha's teaching(s) passed down to us but, ultimately, everything.

2. Does realization require delusion? Realization and delusion are based on perspective. I really love Dogen's idea that we make a mistake of avoiding the mundane for the sacred, but we don't realize that all of it is entirely sacred. Right now for me that means soothing my baby's cries, changing diapers feeding, worrying if he's breathing (like every 5 minutes. hahah). From one perspective you could say that lack of sleep is chaotic and mundane, but there is nothing more sacred. I absolutely love it. I think Jundo's Gratitude comes back to this too. If we view everything in our life from a point of gratitude what is delusion? It's all so beautiful.

Yet still there is poop to clean up and babies to feed and starving people to feed. All at the same time.

3. What is the self? What?!!! What is this!

4. Do realization and delusion exist among all sentient beings, or only humans? I don't know

Gassho

Risho
-stlah

[Zenkon]

Broadly speaking, Dharma is Buddhist teachings. This definition is tricky with some practitioners limiting Dharma to teachings directly attributable to Buddha, while other practitioners include teachings by additional, acknowledged scholars and some practitioners include lay commentaries. A student does not have to look far to find teachings and teachers with just enough true Buddhism to sound authentic but which include all manner of non-Buddhist ideas. A cautious student is constantly challenged to be skeptical and ask of new teachings – “Is it true?”

Delusion takes many forms. We delude ourselves into thinking that our “self” is real and permanent, rather than a construct of our own minds. We further delude ourselves into believing that this “self” is the center of the universe, and that every phenomena, every thing, feeling, thought is correctly viewed only as it relates to this “self”. Based on our experiences, we create biased prejudices, preferences, opinions and we delude ourselves into believing that these biased perceptions are a universal fixed truth shared by everyone, rather than an impermanent unique conception of the world. We mistakenly seek refuge in money, fame, beauty, possessions and delude ourselves into believing that these will give us lasting happiness, rather than seeing that they are impermanent and empty, and provide temporary pleasure at best. Through our clothing, our homes, our cars, our lifestyles, we create a costume, an armor, a uniform that we delude ourselves into believing is our true self, and we suffer as we struggle to maintain this illusion. Through the realization of these delusions, through Zazen, we can peel back these delusions and reveal our true Buddha-nature.

Conventionally, the self is “I”, “me”. However, upon examination, we discover that not only is this “self” impermanent and empty, it is also only a construct fabricated by my own mind. Understanding non-self, no-self allows someone to see the connection with others and with all things. Greed, jealousy, anger, attachment become much easier to overcome when there is no “I vs them”. It is much easier to understand another person’s point of view when you realize that all viewpoints are the same.

Does realization and delusion exist among all sentient beings, or only humans? Realization requires the ability for self-examination. Do non-humans have this ability? I have no idea.
The advancement of scientific knowledge continues to support the idea that inexhaustible characteristics exist in what is beyond what we can see. The discovery of microscopic viruses, bacteria, of molecules, atoms, photons, of seemingly daily discoveries in every scientific field demonstrate how much we do not yet know.

Gassho

Dick

Sat/lah

[Kevin M]

I will be reading along as well. From the preface a few things:

* Okumura says he came to his understanding of Genjokoan through his "own experience of zazen and daily life practice" (recommends that all do this). I found this an interesting inversion - it's not that Genjokoan is a text exclusively for teaching practice, but you come to meet Genjokoan through practice
* On a related note on his first reading of Genjokoan in 1965, the only part he understood was "Therefore, if there are fish that would swim or birds that would fly only after investigating the entire ocean or sky, they would find neither path nor place". I interpret this (along with other things Okumura said in the preface) that zazen is the sacred aspect of Zen that stands for life itself i.e. the "just living" of life
* He talks of his teacher Uchiyama Roshi who, when Okumura received his novice ordination as a Zen monk, said "If you want to be my disciple, you must walk with your own feet in the direction I am walking". I loved that and for some reason it produced a little lump in my throat - something about the humility of that wise old master. This was how he learned about "swimming in the ocean of Buddha Dharma"
* The metaphor of the fish and the ocean is obviously extremely important to Okumura and he returns to it again and again. The cover of the book shows a representation of this metaphor with a fish swimming in a vast ocean

Looking forward to reading Genjokoan many times as we go along, and exploring it with all of you through Okumura's teaching.

Gassho,
Kevin
Sat Today

[Shokai]

I will be reading along as well. From the preface a few things:

* Okumura says he came to his understanding of Genjokoan through his "own experience of zazen and daily life practice" (recommends that all do this). I found this an interesting inversion - it's not that Genjokoan is a text exclusively for teaching practice, but you come to meet Genjokoan through practice
* On a related note on his first reading of Genjokoan in 1965, the only part he understood was "Therefore, if there are fish that would swim or birds that would fly only after investigating the entire ocean or sky, they would find neither path nor place". I interpret this (along with other things Okumura said in the preface) that zazen is the sacred aspect of Zen that stands for life itself i.e. the "just living" of life
* He talks of his teacher Uchiyama Roshi who, when Okumura received his novice ordination as a Zen monk, said "If you want to be my disciple, you must walk with your own feet in the direction I am walking". I loved that and for some reason it produced a little lump in my throat - something about the humility of that wise old master. This was how he learned about "swimming in the ocean of Buddha Dharma"
* The metaphor of the fish and the ocean is obviously extremely important to Okumura and he returns to it again and again. The cover of the book shows a representation of this metaphor with a fish swimming in a vast ocean

Looking forward to reading Genjokoan many times as we go along, and exploring it with all of you through Okumura's teaching.

Gassho,
Kevin
Sat Today

Beautiful
gassho, Shokai
stlah

[Nengei]

Informal Reading Group: REALIZING GENJOKOAN 2021 Edition WEEK 2, 18-24 April

Deep bows to you, Sangha, for your introspection and wisdom on the first section of reading of Realizing Genjōkōan. There are many wonderful thoughts here, and great insight.

It is not mine to comment back or to "steer" any of you. I am reading along with you. I am asking questions along with you. I am learning along with you. I am putting my socks on, cleaning a house, and getting through my days along with you. I hope you read the sections, and stay in touch with Genjōkōan, but I am happy to be able to read your thoughts about our discussion, either way.

This week we are reading through page 21 in the paperback version. This includes chapter 2, "The Meaning of "Genjōkōan." For me, the first paragraphs of this chapter set me up to think that the chapter will be as dry as sand in a desert. It's not that way at all, though! Okumura's exploration of the meaning of the word Genjōkōan is rich with teaching. Parts of this chapter are some of my favorite in the book. I hope that you find it so, as well.

A look ahead: next week's portion will be the following chapter, which is lengthy. You may want to start reading ahead, a little.

Once you have read and considered this week's portion, please come back to this thread and comment. I will list some question ideas below, but these are just ideas I had while reading. My understanding is as full of holes as anyone's, so please feel at liberty to come up with your own questions, or no questions. If you read, but don't feel that you want to comment on this week's portion, please do post that. Any discussion helps me, and probably others, to keep going. To be clear: these questions are not an assignment, and they have no authority whatsoever.

1. Okumura offers a few different interpretations of kōan, and focuses most of his discussion on this portion of the word Genjōkōan. He suggests that Dōgen's choice of kanji implies meaning. Still, I wonder whether there was an individual meaning that was Dōgen's intention, or whether the collective meanings of this word are important. Or, maybe none of that matters because the greater meaning comes from context. Thoughts?

2. Is my individual practice different from community practice? Should it be? How does Okumura answer this question?

3. What are our particular struggles with "put[ting] aside our uniqueness" and "find[ing] the middle way" as discussed by Okumura, in our time and in our Sangha?

4. What is the self?

5. Is enlightenment within this one word?

I look forward to your thoughts about The Meaning of Genjōkōan.

Gassho,
Nengei
Sat today. LAH.

[Tairin]

Thank you Nengei. I’ll start on this week’s reading.

FYI... The Meaning of Genjōkōan is Chapter 2 in the Kobo version of the book.


Tairin
Sat today and lah