Informal Reading Group: REALIZING GENJOKOAN 2021 Edition Begins Week of 11 April 2021

[Onkai]

Friendships and community are flowers. Sickness and dying are weeds. In reading this chapter, it occurred to me that as I am a part of everything and everything is a part of me, I will be carried on through the myriad things regardless of what I do and it may be misguided to strive to leave a legacy I control. "All things coming and carrying practice-enlightenment through the self is realization," may be a key source of creativity. These are what this chapter leads me to reflect on.

Gassho,
Onkai
Sat/lah

[Inshin]

"as long as we are alive, we exist only within relationship to everything that we encounter in our lives."

I think this quote struck me most when I first read "Realising Genjokoan" and since then my concern is not who I want to be in life, but how do I relate to everything and everyone in my life. I don't think there is a single enlightened person in this world, rather there's enlightened activity unfolding through. If this "I" is what wants to practice, wants to sit Zazen, wants Satori then this "I" will always be in the way. It's only when this "I" lessens its grip on things, when it drops completely then the practice - enlightenment can unfold itself. That's how I understand "Conveying oneself toward all things to carry out practice - enlightenment is delusion. All things coming and carrying out practice - enlightenment through the self is realisation."
Yet we root our practice in delusion and we continue even after we're able to realise the true nature of things, because
"delusion is not some fixed thing within our minds that, if eliminated, will be replaced by enlightenment".


Gassho
Sat

[Kiri]

"All things coming and carrying out practice-enlightenment through the self is realization."

Probably my favorite quote from this chapter. For a long time I thought I could "practice" life and zen alone, but lately I see again and again how wrong this idea is.

Gassho, Nikolas
Sat/Lah

[Tairin]

Flowers fall even though we love them and weeds grow even though we dislike them

is one of the classic quotes from Genjokoan and one I come back to often because it is such a vivid statement about how our preferences influence our perspectives and actions. I garden and because my house is on a corner lot I have large plot of land to care for. When I moved into the neighborhood 20+ years ago Canada still allowed for the use of harsh herbicides. Many people in pursuit of that ideal lawn used herbicides. More than 15 years ago the domestic use of herbicide was prohibited. Over time the lawns have all become more naturalized. Clover is one ground cover that is divisive. Some people don’t like it because it isn’t grass but others like me actually seed it into our lawns because it is beneficial to both the health of the lawn but also to the pollenating bees etc. For some clover is a weed to be eradicated. For others clover is desirable. It is just perspective. The clover is just clover. How we view it determines whether we see it as good or bad.

Thank you all for your perspectives on this chapter.


Tairin
Sat today and lah

[Kevin M]

Inshin and Nikos beat me to those quotes. Here's another one in a similar vein that I really liked:

Our lives are the intersection of self and all things

Nengei, thanks for your questions:

4. Practice and enlightenment are one, says Dogen. What is practice?

At a mundane level it's just me sitting (and only sitting) in silence and remaining open (as Okumuru repeats here "Opening the hand of thought"). At a more sacred level (say) it is a moment of communion at that intersection point between my subjective self and all of reality.

I'm still not all that clear on how the sense fields are "prajna" ("wisdom that sees wisdom" - seems to imply that truth is perceived through the sense but I thought elsewhere that enlightenment was not sensory or intellectual?)

Also, curious as to why Dogen adds "in realization" to this (maybe it's because at some level we are already enlightened?)

Those who are greatly deluded in realization are living beings

Gassho,
Kevin
STLAH

[Risho]

That's because we are already enlightened , but we have to manifest that enlightenment in our lives; these aren't my words - just paraphrasing; Dogen's hallmark is that all of our life is sacred because all of our life is an opportunity to practice; practice and enlightenment are the same thing. I'm currently reading "Circle of the Way" by Barbara O'brien - to reiterate Jundo and Kirk (from the podcast) it is very good. It seems Dogen got sick and tired of lazy practitioners and made the focus back on practice again, which really led to a revitalization of zazen, which is why Soto is so popular along with Dogen today.

"nothing is hidden" and there is no where to seek for what you already have, but to realize that you need to really engage with your life to see that even dirty diapers (which I'm now very accustomed ) is the great matter itself. This is why I love zazen; it isn't an escape, it's a practical engagement with our miraculous, crazy short wild ride on this planet.

Gassho

Risho
-stlah

[Nengei]

Informal Reading Group: REALIZING GENJOKOAN 2021 Edition WEEK 4, 9 May - 15 May

Dear Sangha, it seems that others have enjoyed Flowers Fall, Weeds Grow as much as I. Thank you for your insightful responses to this chapter.

If you are just joining us, there is time to catch up! This is an open group, and I hope you feel welcome to read with us.

This coming week we will read through page 73 in the paperback version, chapter 5, Realization Beyond Realization. This chapter... whoa!

Once you have read and considered this week's portion, please come back to this thread and comment. Below are some ideas for questions to think about as your read, and perhaps to stimulate the conversation and posts. Remember that these are questions that I pulled from my reading, not in any way meant as an assignment.

Questions for Chapter 5: Realization Beyond Realization

1. Repentance can be a heavy concept for people from some religious backgrounds. What baggage am I bringing into my self-talk with regards to repentance? Is repentance in Sōtō Zen any different than, say, the burden of sin in other religious traditions (and how)?

2. Is the non-separateness of all living beings simply a paradigm (a lens through which we see the universe)? Is zazen practice? Why do zazen (this is discussed further in the chapter)?

3. Delusion "... is the reality of human life." How is delusion different from suffering? Consider delusion within delusion and self-centered practice. What do I want from practice?

4. What is "the unity of object and subject?"

I look forward to your thoughts about Realization Beyond Realization. Next week, we will continue with the following chapter, through page 92 in the paperback, which is Chapter 6, Dropping Off Body and Mind.


Gassho,
Nengei
Sat today. LAH.

[Onkai]

Thank you to everyone participating on this thread.

After reading this chapter, I think a difference in repentance in our practice from many other traditions is that we know our views and understandings are limited, and we expect and accept that we need to constantly correct ourselves. It isn't that we're damned, but that there is something to let go. Of course, if I find I've done harm, I regret it as well.

The non-separateness of all things is a different way of seeing things, but if I don't recognize interconnectedness, I'm likely to make mistakes in how I expect things to work.

Delusions can be happy delusions, but they don't last. Impermanence and interdependence intrude on delusions. I want to learn to see reality and find a certain peace with reality through my practice.

Unity of object and subject is what is experienced when the sense of self drops away. Everything is one. Psychologically, it may be the experience of flow.

Thank you for the questions, Nengei. They were fruitful to reflect on. In writing this post I feel like the visitor a Zen master poured tea for so it overflowed and said it was like the visitor's flow of words so nothing could be taught to him. I will stop now and look forward to what others post.

Gassho,
Onkai
Sat

[Inshin]

"People nowadays rarely seek genuine reality. Therefore, though they are deficient in practice with their bodies and deficient in realization with their minds, they seek the praise of others, wanting others to say that their practice and their understanding are equal. This is exactly what is called delusion within delusion. You should immediately abandon such mistaken thinking."

How often the way we relate to others in our Sangha, the way we ask questions to our teachers comes from self referential point, serves to validate our selves : is my practice good enough? Was my experience valid, meaningful and pointing to something? Etc.


As long as there is this sense of "I" that practices, this "I" will be an obstacle. Yet we have to root our practice in delusion. How else can we do it? How do we address this self-referentiality, the need of self validation in our beginners practice? Is being mindful of this tendencies when they arise enough?

"Our practice is to realize great realization within this great realization, moment by moment; or perhaps it is better to say that great realization realizes great realization through our practice."

I found something similar in Master's Torei writings, who points out that the true practice continues from the point of realizing the the great realization, realizing the truth moment by moment.

How do we work to dissolve this fixation on self?

Gassho
Sat

[Zenkon]

1. Repentance can be a heavy concept for people from some religious backgrounds. What baggage am I bringing into my self-talk with regards to repentance? Is repentance in Sōtō Zen any different than, say, the burden of sin in other religious traditions (and how)?

Christian/Catholic repentance and Buddhist repentance both begin with a critical self-examination of past behavior. However, while this Christian examination compares behavior with external standar4ds ( i.e. God’s Commandments), the Buddhist examination compares our behavior against internal standards. The Christian goal of repentance is to receive external approval and forgiveness from an external being (i.e. God). Repentance is done to please God, and involves a great deal of guilt and fear of punishment. In Buddhism, repentance is “lighter” and simply acknowledges our deviation from our own path, and a determination to return to the path we have internally chosen.

2. Is the non-separateness of all living beings simply a paradigm (a lens through which we see the universe)? Is zazen practice? Why do zazen (this is discussed further in the chapter)?

In our daily living, we have no choice but to live self-centered lives. We experience the world thru our six senses (five form senses plus thought) which automatically place us as the “subject” and everything else as the “object” in a world in which we are the center. Everything is experienced in relation to “I”. This results in a self-centered, dualistic view of reality. We just assume that this conventional reality is “correct”.
In zazen, we”… let go of our ego-centered selves and become one with the total interpenetrating reality that is universal reality, or absolute reality.” We become less self-centered and non-dualistic. Zazen allows us to see ultimate reality in a different, more authentic way. One way is not better, or “right”. Neither are they contradictory. The two views compliment each other and together form a true reality.

3. Delusion "... is the reality of human life” How is delusion different from suffering? Consider delusion within delusion and self-centered practice. What do I want from practice?

Delusion produces greed (attachment) which results in suffering. Even within zazen, I can remain deluded by thinking that “I” exists, and by “wanting” something from zazen, by striving to attain something.
What do I want from practice? To see reality in a non self-centered, non-dualistic manner, without greed or “wanting”, to radically accept everything just as it is.

4. What is "the unity of object and subject?"

The realization that they are separate and yet the same, the dependent origination of all things.

I really liked Inshin's comment "...As long as there is this sense of "I" that practices, this "I" will be an obstacle. Yet we have to root our practice in delusion." I keep this in mind not only during zazen, but throughout my daily practice. Very helpful.

Gassho

Dick

Sat/lah

[Inshin]

Repentance can be a heavy concept for people from some religious backgrounds. What baggage am I bringing into my self-talk with regards to repentance? Is repentance in Sōtō Zen any different than, say, the burden of sin in other religious traditions (and how)?

I think there may be an interesting difference between people brought up in Buddhist cultures and those who grew up in Christian ones. Christianity assumes that we are born with the original sin, in Buddhism we believe in basic goodness in everyone. For me it's a striking difference. I see repentance as sort of mindfulness. During the day I notice where I might have been of my Precepts Way, and in a compassionate manner try to understand why. That's the most sufficient way for me to dissolve the habitual patterns.

Gassho
Sat

[Kaisui]

I am now up to date on these chapters . I have really been enjoying this book, especially this last chapter has been so rich and rewarding for orienting me in practice. I will just respond to a couple of questions—thank you Nengei for setting these prompts for discussion and to everyone for this discussion thread.

2. Is the non-separateness of all living beings simply a paradigm (a lens through which we see the universe)? Is zazen practice? Why do zazen (this is discussed further in the chapter)?

Yes. Or, kind of?

Yes, because all conceptions we have about reality using words to talk about it are just lenses through which we see the universe, since reality as we see (express?) on the cushion is not graspable with our conceptual mind.

Or, kind of, because the concept the words “non-separateness of all living beings” tries to capture/describe is reality.

Why do zazen? To bring the light of this reality we cannot see conceptually into our lives so that we can live expressing Buddha rather than only struggling for our ‘selves’.

3. Delusion "... is the reality of human life." How is delusion different from suffering? Consider delusion within delusion and self-centered practice. What do I want from practice?

Delusion is always there so long as there are separate living beings, the separateness is the delusion. Suffering happens to living beings who do not realize that this is delusion.

I liked the comments by Okumura about how a self-centred goal is what drives us to get on the cushion in the first place. But then in practice we realize this too is delusion because there is no independent self? So... what do I want from practice? Just before I sit, to see reality. But when sitting, to just let this desire go and let it all go. At least, this is how I’m understanding it at the moment…

,
Charity
SatLaH

[Tairin]

Great section. Thank you all for reading along and your thoughts.

In zazen, our practice is to let go of our fabricated mental map, to open the hand of thought, and thereby sit down on the ground of reality. Thinking can only produce a distorted mental copy of the world, and this copy is based on karmic experiences.

Okamura uses this phrase of sitting down on the ground of reality (my emphasis) several times in this section. I really like the image it portrays. Being grounded and firm, not floating along maybe lost in our own worlds but here and now firmly grounded in reality

1. Is repentance in Sōtō Zen any different than, say, the burden of sin in other religious traditions (and how)?

I can’t really say how they are different. Although i come from a Christian background I don’t think repentance played a big part. Maybe it plays a bigger part in some other Christian traditions like Catholic Church. I know that Atonement has become a big part of my practice. I recite the Verse of Atonement each night before bed, recalling specific moments where I could have done better, particularly as it comes to the Precepts.

2. Is the non-separateness of all living beings simply a paradigm (a lens through which we see the universe)? Is zazen practice? Why do zazen (this is discussed further in the chapter)?

I don’t see how it can be simply a paradigm. At the very least we are obviously here because of our parents and they are (were) here because of their parents. The food we eat comes from somewhere. So does the water. What about the air?

3. Delusion "... is the reality of human life." How is delusion different from suffering? Consider delusion within delusion and self-centered practice. What do I want from practice?

Delusion is a form of suffering.

4. What is "the unity of object and subject?"

Every moment.


Tairin
Sat today and lah

[Nengei]

Hello Sangha,

My apologies for being a couple of days behind; I have been traveling and I have been ill. The timing was fortuitous a I had already planned to have the first of two extra weeks for folks to catch up and/or make progress on what we have covered so far.

Such nice replies, and thoughtful responses so far!

Gassho,
Nengei
Sat today. LAH.

[Onkai]

Metta, Nengei. I hope you feel better soon. Thank you for facilitating this discussion.

Gassho,
Onkai
Sat/lah