Informal Reading Group: REALIZING GENJOKOAN 2021 Edition Begins Week of 11 April 2021

[Nengei]

PS The timing is such that we should be able to finish this text before Ango begins, and be ready to dive into Ango study.

Gassho,
Nengei
Sat today. LAH.

[Doshin]

Thanks

Doshin
St

[Inshin]

Gassho
Sat

[Ryumon]

3. What is the self?

Oh, sure, that's an easy one. Once we got this sorted out, we don't need to read any more. :-)

Gassho,

Ryūmon

sat

[aprapti]

aprapti

sat

[Myosho]

Thank You

SAT Lah

[Tom A.]

Gassho,
Tom

SatLah

[Tairin]

I am reading along. One request though, can we use the chapter names rather than page numbers? Printed page numbers rarely line up with the Ebook numbering.


Tairin
Sat today and lah

[Shokai]

I am reading along. One request though, can we use the chapter names rather than page numbers? Printed page numbers rarely line up with the Ebook numbering.


Tairin
Sat today and lah

Good point
gassho, shokai

[Nengei]

I am reading along. One request though, can we use the chapter names rather than page numbers? Printed page numbers rarely line up with the Ebook numbering.


Tairin
Sat today and lah

Certainly. I will update the post at the top of this thread to reflect that. Thank you for the excellent suggestion.

Gassho,
Nengei
Sat today. LAH.

[Tomás ESP]

Wonderful initiative Nengei, I have been wanting to dive into Dogen's teachings for some time now, and from the videos that I have seen of Shohaku Okumura, I am a fan! So I will be reading along, excited

Gassho, Tomás
Sat&LaH

[Risho]

Thank you!

risho
-stlah

[Jundo]

Hi Guys,

After briefly discussing with Nengei, I am merging the "Realizing Genjokoan" discussion threads into a single thread for housekeeping purposes. In this way, we can centralize the whole discussion here.

It truly is a wonderful book, and a marvelous gateway into Dogen and the Shobogenzo.

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

[Tomás ESP]

What a mind-blowing text

I really like your questions Nengei, so I will answer these directly. I feel like a few questions for each chapter is a great way to get the conversation going.

1. What is Dharma?

I understand Dharma as:

a) The Buddhist teachings (although Hindu teachings also employ the word Dharma).
b) Reality itself.
c) Every aspect that is part of that reality.

2. Does realization require delusion?

“Those who greatly realize delusion are Buddhas. Those who are greatly deluded in realization are living beings”. Delusion that is not recognized is present in those who are not Buddhas. To become liberated, one must recognize delusion, therefore realization cannot happen without delusion. In fact, the Buddhist path formulates liberation as the extinction of the three poisons: desire, aversion, and delusion.

3. What is the self?

“To study the Self is to forget the self. To forget the self is to be verified by all things”. Dogen points to the non-existence of the small self and how one discovers the Self when this small self and the small selves of all things drop off. From my perspective, this means that when we are free from conceptual constructs, including the view of an intrinsic, permanent, independent, solid and fixed self, we see reality as it is, whole and complete.

4. Do realization and delusion exist among all sentient beings, or only humans?

“There is practice-enlightenment – this is the way of living beings”. I think Dogen points to realization and delusion among all sentient beings, as is common in Mahayana Buddhism.

5. Dogen writes that there are inexhaustible characteristics in what is beyond what we can see, and also within what is right in front of us. How is this borne out or refuted by the advancement of scientific knowledge?

“We only see or grasp as far as the power of our eye of study and practice can see”. I agree with Dogen on this. Even though we can know an incredible number of things through scientific research, we will always have more questions. I believe (and this is purely from a subjective perspective) that we will never answer all questions about reality. Even though our methods may be more refined by the day, we will always operate from a subjective perspective that is limited. Also, the relationships and interconnectedness that compose this reality are infinite.

[Onkai]

What a mind-blowing text

I really like your questions Nengei, so I will answer these directly. I feel like a few questions for each chapter is a great way to get the conversation going.

1. What is Dharma?

I understand Dharma as:

a) The Buddhist teachings (although Hindu teachings also employ the word Dharma).
b) Reality itself.
c) Every aspect that is part of that reality.

2. Does realization require delusion?

“Those who greatly realize delusion are Buddhas. Those who are greatly deluded in realization are living beings”. Delusion that is not recognized is present in those who are not Buddhas. To become liberated, one must recognize delusion, therefore realization cannot happen without delusion. In fact, the Buddhist path formulates liberation as the extinction of the three poisons: desire, aversion, and delusion.

3. What is the self?

“To study the Self is to forget the self. To forget the self is to be verified by all things”. Dogen points to the non-existence of the small self and how one discovers the Self when this small self and the small selves of all things drop off. From my perspective, this means that when we are free from conceptual constructs, including the view of an intrinsic, permanent, independent, solid and fixed self, we see reality as it is, whole and complete.

4. Do realization and delusion exist among all sentient beings, or only humans?

“There is practice-enlightenment – this is the way of living beings”. I think Dogen points to realization and delusion among all sentient beings, as is common in Mahayana Buddhism.

5. Dogen writes that there are inexhaustible characteristics in what is beyond what we can see, and also within what is right in front of us. How is this borne out or refuted by the advancement of scientific knowledge?

“We only see or grasp as far as the power of our eye of study and practice can see”. I agree with Dogen on this. Even though we can know an incredible number of things through scientific research, we will always have more questions. I believe (and this is purely from a subjective perspective) that we will never answer all questions about reality. Even though our methods may be more refined by the day, we will always operate from a subjective perspective that is limited. Also, the relationships and interconnectedness that compose this reality are infinite.

I like the questions and these answers. The more we look, the more there is to see. The more we learn, the more there is to understand.

Gassho,
Onkai
Sat/lah