Proposal for Sangha Discussion: "SAT TODAY!" - Sitting Before Talking

[Byokan]

Hi All,

I think it’s clear that a majority of people are in favor of keeping “sat today”, and that this is something our Teacher feels will be beneficial.

There does seem to be an unspoken question lurking here, so I will be the devil’s advocate and ask it: if this is a hard and fast rule, how will it be enacted or enforced? Say someone is coming in and posting, and not discussing any trouble with sitting, and yet still not sitting after 3 months. What happens? A public discussion? A strongly worded PM? Ban from the forum?

I only ask because the question seems to be sitting there like an elephant in the room. I have no objection to the rule.

Gassho
Lisa
sat today

[Jinyo]

Hi All,

I think it’s clear that a majority of people are in favor of keeping “sat today”, and that this is something our Teacher feels will be beneficial.

There does seem to be an unspoken question lurking here, so I will be the devil’s advocate and ask it: if this is a hard and fast rule, how will it be enacted or enforced? Say someone is coming in and posting, and not discussing any trouble with sitting, and yet still not sitting after 3 months. What happens? A public discussion? A strongly worded PM? Ban from the forum?

I only ask because the question seems to be sitting there like an elephant in the room. I have no objection to the rule.

Gassho
Lisa
sat today

Hi Lisa - hopefully a gentle word from Jundo would be enough - I feel it would be very strange and inappropriate for any of us to be involved in a 'public discussion' on any member.

Hello Bryson - just to reiterate, one of the guiding principles of this sangha is to provide a place of sitting (and I hope friendship/support) for those who can not attend a bricks- and mortar building (for some due to ill health etc). I think it's fine for members to come here for a virtual hug - and I appreciated this very much when my daughter first became seriously ill.

Lets not get too austere,

sitting before chatting - absolutely. But space for friendship too.

Gassho

Willow

Sat Today

[Jundo]

There does seem to be an unspoken question lurking here, so I will be the devil’s advocate and ask it: if this is a hard and fast rule, how will it be enacted or enforced? Say someone is coming in and posting, and not discussing any trouble with sitting, and yet still not sitting after 3 months. What happens? A public discussion? A strongly worded PM? Ban from the forum?

I only ask because the question seems to be sitting there like an elephant in the room. I have no objection to the rule.

Gassho
Lisa
sat today

Well, I imagine it would be very gentle and easy. If we notice it continuing over a period (not just once in awhile) we would just PM the person with a gentle reminder and inquiry. Kinda like we do when someone forgets an avatar picture or the like.

If it turns out they are having struggle with sitting, we would let them know that they are welcome to join in the Forum in order to discuss and get passed their struggles and for hugs all arounds. Nobody is getting booted out for something like that. It is okay, it is something we all go through sometimes. (Also, the requirement does not apply to newcomers for the first few months, only older regulars.)

If at that point, someone were to continue the Practice after repeated requests with no explanation why or a "go sit on your mother" attitude, I would temporarily close their membership here pending clarification. However, I doubt it will ever come to this. That seems very unlikely.

Guys, I think some folks are overreacting ... as if we are going to have a band of men in black "Zazen Enforcement Police" running around, kicking people out.



We are not banning hugs, kicking out the suffering, or driving people to Zazen with cattle prods.

Anyway, Happy Rohatsu Everyone! The Forum will be closing shortly.

Gassho, J

SatToday!

[Shoka]

Hi all,

For me it took a few days to get over the initial reaction to being asked to report, but once I did it was fine and helpful. But I think that I was able to get over that initial reaction because I have been around long enough to understand why we were being asked to do this and to believe that the intention was good. I agree with Lisa that the general consensus is to keep the "sat today". So my concern now is how will the rule be posted to the forum for new people to understand why this is being done and why we are asked to this. It will set an important tone for guests just looking around, as they don't yet have the faith in the intention and might be persuaded by their "what am I a child who has to report" feelings and leave or not join even if they are already sitting.

Gassho,
Kathryn

Sat Today

[Kaishin]

Would be interesting to see some server/forum stats on #posts/day before and after the initial announcement to see if there are fewer people posting!

#satToday

[Nindo]

Kaishin, I do have the impression that a lot of chatter has died down since the original request.

"Majority" is not a simple concept on this site by the way - if you go to our member list, the majority of user names have 0 posts!
And some of our regular posters have not said anything in this discussion.

Gassho,
Nindo

sat today

[Meikyo]

Hi Jundo:

I know. You've gone to extraordinary lengths to make yourself clear (thanks by the way). What concerns me is the exclusion of people who might have something to gain from what goes on here but who are continuously not ready to commit or comply. Even if it is just a single seed of dharma being planted I feel that's better than nothing. Even if we never see it bloom around here. But as I said I understand you fully and stand by you.

Just to be clear...I have neither wife nor a alcohol problem. It was just an example.

Gassho
Aske
#SAT TODAY

[bayamo]

Yeah I only noticed this thread today, but noticed the tag a few days back. Though I sit daily, I come and go from the board.
Oh yeah, Sat Today! :-)

Sent from my ST25a using Tapatalk 2

[Anshu Bryson]

Hi Lisa - hopefully a gentle word from Jundo would be enough - I feel it would be very strange and inappropriate for any of us to be involved in a 'public discussion' on any member.

Hello Bryson - just to reiterate, one of the guiding principles of this sangha is to provide a place of sitting (and I hope friendship/support) for those who can not attend a bricks- and mortar building (for some due to ill health etc). I think it's fine for members to come here for a virtual hug - and I appreciated this very much when my daughter first became seriously ill.

Lets not get too austere,

sitting before chatting - absolutely. But space for friendship too.

Gassho

Willow

Sat Today

Hi Willow,

I am not saying that there is no place for friendship - I have found some fine friendship here myself! - I was simply stating my own take on why I am here and how I see the place (i.e. for the practice, in that it is a dojo and not a discussion forum like some of the open boards). I

certainly don't expect anyone else to follow my lead or to be influenced by my view; just hopefully giving some food for thought...

I am always happy to change my own mind, given the right set of circumstances, so I am always keen to hear different viewpoints in order to better inform my own thinking...

Gassho,

Bryson

sat today

[Jinyo]

Hi Willow,

I am not saying that there is no place for friendship - I have found some fine friendship here myself! - I was simply stating my own take on why I am here and how I see the place (i.e. for the practice, in that it is a dojo and not a discussion forum like some of the open boards). I

certainly don't expect anyone else to follow my lead or to be influenced by my view; just hopefully giving some food for thought...

I am always happy to change my own mind, given the right set of circumstances, so I am always keen to hear different viewpoints in order to better inform my own thinking...

Gassho,

Bryson

sat today

Hello Bryson,

no worries. Thank you for your practice and contribution.



Willow

Sat Today

[Jundo]

Hi guys,

I posted guidelines as a sticky thread based on the the input and advice here. Thank you all. Lets see how it continues to go.

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?12995-Signing-SatToday-Please-Sat-before-Forum-Chat

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday!

[Kokuu]

Hi all

I must admit I am finding myself increasingly not liking the 'sat today' rule. I pretty much assumed that everyone was sitting regularly anyway and find it odd that someone would not be allowed to post on a particular day if they hadn't sat despite having a regular practice. Although shikantaza is clearly the primary formal practice of Soto Zen, practice takes many forms and some people are only able to sit intermittently due to work and family commitments in which they may be serving their community and loved ones with great compassion and awareness.

To be honest, it feels a bit school teacherish, a bit like the way I ask my kids if they have brushed their teeth before they go out of the door in the morning. We are all adults and are responsible for our own practice. The requirement for daily sitting is already enshrined in the Treeleaf constitution (for want of a better word) so requiring written validation of that seems, to me, a bit superfluous.

Anyway, just my two cents for what it is worth. My resistance to the rule does not mean that I will not work with that and abide with it while I am here. One person's resistance is just that.

Gassho
Kokuu
#sattoday

[Myosha]

Hello,

So?


Gassho,
Myosha sat today

[Jishin]

Proposal for Sangha Discussion: "SAT TODAY!" - Sitting Before Talking

Hello,

Time to chat then time to sit or time to sit then time to chat? If there is time to chat then there is time to...

Gassho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Rich]

It's not so much for me but reminder and encouragement for those starting on the path or those that have wandered off the path.
Sat today