Proposal for Sangha Discussion: "SAT TODAY!" - Sitting Before Talking

[Byokan]

Hi All,

Isn’t it interesting to see what arises as we consider this? There’s a lot of “I” here: I want to be a good student, I don’t want to be told what to do, I am a good or bad sitter, I don’t like to be compared, etc. As an exercise, it’s already got us thinking and feeling, and it’s only been a day.


Bottom line for me is, if Jundo or Taigu or the Unsui asked me to wear my shoes on the wrong feet for a day, I’d have my doubts, and I’d probably be pretty uncomfortable, but I’d give it a try, practice with it, and then report back. Maybe I’d only make it 10 minutes and say to heck with this! Maybe I’d learn something. Maybe it would be an idea that went nowhere. But I trust our teachers so I’d give it a sincere effort, if nothing else just out of respect.


After all, Jundo only asked us to try it for a month. If it turns out to be dividing or distracting or detrimental, we’ll find that out together and move on.

Gassho
Lisa

[Rich]

The whole point of studying Buddhism and reading this forum is to support you in developing a sitting practice. So sat today or sit today is just affirming for yourself and everyone else this is what we do.
#sat today

Kind regards. /\

[Risho]

Thank you Rich. I agree with that wholeheartedly.

Gassho,

Risho
(sat today)

[Daiyo]

I kept thinking about this and my very personal conclusion is that when someone goes somewhere to study something from a teacher, one doesn't get to tell the teacher how or what to teach.
If one wants to learn, and trusts the teacher, that one is supposed to do what the teacher says, as long as it is related with the study.
But I know it's easier for me because I know nothing, and do not have a lot of time of practice. So everything is new and an opportunity to learn.

It's just my opinion, anyway.


Gassho,
Walter

SAT TODAY

[Dosho]

I kept thinking about this and my very personal conclusion is that when someone goes somewhere to study something from a teacher, one doesn't get to tell the teacher how or what to teach.
If one wants to learn, and trusts the teacher, that one is supposed to do what the teacher says, as long as it is related with the study.
But I know it's easier for me because I know nothing, and do not have a lot of time of practice. So everything is new and an opportunity to learn.

Jundo has never insisted in blind obedience to the teacher as he has always said that the proof is in the pudding. We are usually asked to provide feedback (not always...he is the teacher after all) which I am grateful for. So, he has asked us to do this for one month in earnest despite any misgivings we have. I personally think this is a bad idea, but I will not grumble at being asked to try it out. I will do it and then see for myself what the results have been. I humbly suggest that we all do the same.

Gassho,
Dosho

I sat today.

[Daiyo]

Thanks Dosho.

It is good to have different opinions and the space to express them.

Gassho,
Walter.

SAT TODAY

[Kyonin]

Hi guys,

It blows my mind how this topic has provoked such a reaction.

The Sat Today tag is not about control, police people or anything of the like. It's just a way of supporting each other's practice and do what we need to do in our way: sit zazen.

Coming here to talk about life and out problems is fine. To talk about art or music is fine. Hell, I even thought of opening a video gaming and zen thread today. All topics are okay in my opinion, as long as they stay relevant to our sangha and as long as we don't forget the fact that the core of our practice is zazen.

In a brick and mortar sangha the experience is different because people sit in the same room at the same time. In Treeleaf things need to work differently because we have to be creating in what tools to implement to make it a good experience for all.

We should sit more and talk less, that's the fact. There's no sangha score card for that, nor we'll go to hell for not sitting.

The Sat Toda tag is just a way of joining the practice and a reminder. That's all.

For what it's worth, I am happy with it and I'll stick to it for as long as needed. But then again, I'm just a fool.

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

[Anshu Bryson]

From "Taking the Path of Zen", by Robert Aitken:

"Just as one must have faith in one’s guide in order to traverse an
unknown forest, so faith in the roshi is essential. This is not a
matter o f personal aggrandizement for the roshi, but a matter
of utmost importance for the student. Without that faith,
zazen becomes only a sterile practice in concentration, with no
movement toward realization and beyond. The student cannot
trust himself or herself truly to let go.
It is like the new diver on the high board. The coach says,
“Go ahead, dive off.” If the athlete trusts the coach, then
letting go , at least in that dimension, is possible. If not, then
retreat is the only option. The roshi will have foibles, like any
other human being. But faith in the roshi is not a matter of
expecting perfection."

Gassho,

Bryson

BK sat today

[Stacy]

After all, Jundo only asked us to try it for a month. If it turns out to be dividing or distracting or detrimental, we’ll find that out together and move on.

Gassho
Lisa

Hey Lisa,

That's what keeps coming to me. It makes me wonder if the testing part is not being picked up. Then again, maybe some still feel the need to sound out against regardless. I don't really understand the need in this case, but I will be understanding as I can.

Part of what makes the world beautiful is how different things and people are. So many different points of view and opinions.

You see - already it has changed my attitude. I logged onto Tree Leaf today - read the messages - went to type a reply and thought 'hang on a minute - I haven't sat today - will I make time to do this? If I've got time to type a message then I've got time to sit for 10 mins - even if I don't feel like it - even if there's resistance.'

This is similar to my own experience, Willow.

I have no interest in judging anybody else's sitting. It's only been a couple days, but I feel this has already been encouraging to me in my recent efforts to return to sitting and sitting regularly. Should this idea get tossed at the month's end, I may continue to do it regardless if I see it fit. Should someone here take that as asserting some status or flaunting, that is not my intention.

Metta to all.


Gassho,
Stacy

#SatToday

[Ugrok]

It's quite beautiful to see that nobody had the idea that people could lie about it.

I hate to be the one that did.

Gassho,

Ugrok (sat ellite)

PS : puns will deplete fast

[delphizealot]

I agree with Lisa that it's interesting to consider the various reactions here. Or, at least, my perception of the reactions. This was percolating a bit while I sat this morning, with many facets tumbling about. I expect, with time, my perception of the issue will round out.

-Dan
Sat (and percolated) today

[Stacy]

It's quite beautiful to see that nobody had the idea that people could lie about it.

I hate to be the one that did.

Gassho,

Ugrok (sat ellite)

PS : puns will deplete fast

Hello Ugrok,

Thank you for the laugh.


Gassho,
Stacy

#SatToday

[Dosho]

The Sat Today tag is not about control, police people or anything of the like. It's just a way of supporting each other's practice and do what we need to do in our way: sit zazen.

With all due respect to my brother, I can see why people would feel that it is a type of control. The mere suggestion of something like this tends to imply, rightly or wrongly, that people are not sitting enough. Thus, on a very basic level it is a type of control. That isn't necessarily a bad thing for a teacher to do and I don't think for a second that Jundo is trying to control anyone. He just wants more sit and less talk!

That said, I think it is natural and normal for adults to ask, "Why doesn't he just ask us to do that?". My personal opinion is that writing "Sat today" feels like being back in grade school, but this is only a trial folks. If it doesn't work we'll get rid of it...but a proper evaluation of this idea can only occur if we dive in head first and give it a real shot.

Thank you for listening to my ramblings.

Gassho,
Dosho

I sat today.

[Sekishi]

Thank you all for the lively discussion on this topic. I personally find it a little corny, but if it helps others with practice, I'm 110% for it. Lets see how this goes!

Thank you all.

Gassho,
Sekishi
#SatToday

[Jinyo]

With all due respect to my brother, I can see why people would feel that it is a type of control. The mere suggestion of something like this tends to imply, rightly or wrongly, that people are not sitting enough. Thus, on a very basic level it is a type of control. That isn't necessarily a bad thing for a teacher to do and I don't think for a second that Jundo is trying to control anyone. He just wants more sit and less talk!

That said, I think it is natural and normal for adults to ask, "Why doesn't he just ask us to do that?". My personal opinion is that writing "Sat today" feels like being back in grade school, but this is only a trial folks. If it doesn't work we'll get rid of it...but a proper evaluation of this idea can only occur if we dive in head first and give it a real shot.

Thank you for listening to my ramblings.

Gassho,
Dosho

I sat today.

Hi Dosho - in relation to what you express (I understand your reservations) the reason I suggested earlier in the thread the use of the symbol is because words can bring up all sorts of reactions in people.

I'm curious - would you still feel like you were back in grade school if you used a symbol instead of words? Would there be any 'I' in this expression at all?

Stacy - I feel as you do - I'd like to continue with this no matter what because it's orientated me in a positive way.

Gassho

Willow

(but no need to put after every post - just once a day I guess?)