Consuming alcohol

[Taigu]

What works best for me is not to drink on a daily basis. Not a single drop. So from Monday to Friday, I am completly sober. I only drink during the weekend and fine wine with meals.
The fact is I don't like what booze does to my brain, the way it changes my consciousness. I just love the clarity, crispness and space without it. With it, everything is numb and foggy.

Gassho

Taigu

[Kokuu]

The fact is I don't like what booze does to my brain, the way it changes my consciousness. I just love the clarity, crispness and space without it. With it, everything is numb and foggy.

I agree totally with this, Taigu. It would seem strange to be spending a large part of the day sitting on a cushion so my mind became clear and bright only to then cloud it up again.

That said, this only applies to myself, and is the reason I have always considered this precept to be a total prohibition on alcohol and drugs (I do consume green tea in moderation though) but I would not presume to dictate how other people choose to interpret it for themselves.

Gassho
Kokuu

[TimF]

Sorry...I couldn't resist

Gassho,
Tim

[Jundo]

Yes, well ... perhaps best to resist the attraction of that particular Buddha.

[robert]

Hi Treeleafers -- I haven't been here in a long, long time. My sitting practice dropped off a couple years ago, and at one point I just decided I wasn't a Buddhist at all. After making that decision, I felt a kind of "license to drink" -- that is, my alcohol intake increased considerably. I'm not an addict and don't have the propensity to become addicted, but certainly I was drinking more than I did when I considered myself a practicing Buddhist who was at least trying to align himself with the precepts.

Ironically enough, alcohol -- or more precisely, observing what went on in the mind during the course of drinking -- was one of the things that has prompted me to take another look at the dharma.

I had developed the habit of enjoying some beer or wine in the evening, usually out on the porch, or in the company of a good book, or perhaps in the kitchen while cooking. And I became more conscious than before of the way the buzz from alcohol reaches a peak -- at which point you feel really, really good -- and then starts to drop off. At that point, you can let it go and say "ok, that was that". Or you can try to sustain it by refilling your glass or opening another bottle, but what tends to happen in that case is that the initial euphoria gives way to drunkenness, which is a different and (to my mind) less pleasant sensation. The returns diminish the more you consume, and the risk of a morning hangover increases.

What caught my attention here is the difficulty/impossibility of sustaining the "sweet spot" -- that point early on where you feel blissed out as a result of the alcohol hitting your brain. So it made me think about bliss in general, and about impermanence, and about the possibility of finding a different kind of bliss...well, you see where this is going. The drinking experience is dukkha-prone in that it delivers a high that can't be sustained, which in turn generates clinging (the desire to keep the buzz going), and in a bad-case scenario an entire vicious cycle that ends in a throbbing headache or worse.

[Jundo]

What caught my attention here is the difficulty/impossibility of sustaining the "sweet spot" -- that point early on where you feel blissed out as a result of the alcohol hitting your brain. So it made me think about bliss in general, and about impermanence, and about the possibility of finding a different kind of bliss...well, you see where this is going. The drinking experience is dukkha-prone in that it delivers a high that can't be sustained, which in turn generates clinging (the desire to keep the buzz going), and in a bad-case scenario an entire vicious cycle that ends in a throbbing headache or worse.

Yes, I believe that brain scans of drinkers have shown (although the scientific understanding of the mechanism and process is far from clear) that this has to do with the different portions of the brain which are activated/de-activated as drinking continues. Many drinkers have experienced this when going too far. First, there tends to be relaxation and elation ... eventually loss of inhibition ... violence (the bar fight) ... sadness ... hangover ...

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/you-illuminated/201005/farewell-bar-fights

Gassho, J

[robert]

Yes, I believe that brain scans of drinkers have shown (although the scientific understanding of the mechanism and process is far from clear) that this has to do with the different portions of the brain which are activated/de-activated as drinking continues. Many drinkers have experienced this when going too far. First, there tends to be relaxation and elation ... eventually loss of inhibition ... violence (the bar fight) ... sadness ... hangover ...

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/you-illuminated/201005/farewell-bar-fights

Gassho, J

That's a very interesting read. Ever see Barfly, the Bukowski movie? Kind of reminds me of that. Except he seemed to revel in the whole thing.

[Biko]

The only reason alcohol (and any drugs) can be negative is that it can cause you to make bad choices and violate other precepts. I know for myself I cant really touch the booze because I turn into the Incredible Hulk on crack and it just isnt good for me or anyone around me. I'm not in "recovery" per se, I just don't do it. In the end it's about choices and we can only make those for ourselves and take responsibility for the crops we sow.

Gassho,
Jeffrey

[Ugrok]

Maybe i will appear totally foolish here, but sometimes, it is really good for me to be totally stupid and drink and have fun, all while knowing, deeply, that this is "dukkha". I know i will suffer on the next day, i know it's stupid, but there is a kind of joy in letting go and accepting to suffer as well. You know, those "oh well, screw this !" moments. Thing is to not have a lot of them, but from time to time, i find it does me a ton of good, even if there is a headache the next morning.

Gassho,

Ugrok

[Jundo]

Hi Ugrok,

Actually, in Japan and many places in Asia such "let loose" days are built into the calendar or "look the other way" tolerated or even celebrated in custom and literature. So long as once in awhile and nobody gets seriously hurt, then people need to let off steam. Of course, we must recall again that to some addicts even one drop is poison, so zero tolerance there.

Gassho, Jundo

[Joryu]

Middle Way

[JohnsonCM]

I used to drink quite heavily, but stopped because it interfered with my life too much. I guess it is all in why you drink and how much you consume. A little bit every now and again might not be an issue but going to excess almost always is

[RichardH]

This afternoon we had a 60th Anniversary party for the inlaws. It was a get-together of many people we have not seen for years. It was interesting to see how people do not change that much. Some do not drink at all. Some drink a bit and do not seem very effected. Some just have a little champagne for the toast, but seem more effected. A couple of people knock it back and get lively. One does not know when to stop has to be taken home before she starts to act out.. All in all... not much change from a gathering of the same people ten years ago. I had a glass of champagne for the toast, but only drank half of it because alcohol gives me instant acid reflux. My craving struggle is with the little spinach and feta phyllo pastries.

Gassho
Daizan

[jphiled]

I've been there. I visit Japan yearly, and one of our family friends is an older gentleman who lost his wife a couple years ago due to a sudden bout of pneumonia (less than a single day). Talk about the fragility of life. Anyhow, since then, he went from a very cheerful, hardworking old man to a very quiet, sullen one and hasn't been the same since. He liked to drink before, but drinks more now. I've had a beer with him a couple times in the past becuse I didn't want to be rude, and also because I know how lonely he gets. I'm not proud of it (since I relaly do try to abstain from alcohol), but I felt it was the right thing to do at the time.

But I can't claim to be very pious though. When living in Ireland for a year, I finally had a Guiness at my own going-away party just so I could say I had a Guiness in Ireland.

IMHO, the Buddha is right in that alcohol and such lead to heedlessness and regret, but if you are in a situation where you must/should/ought to drink then at least excercise some caution and moderation.

[delphizealot]

It's funny that the precepts discussion on intoxicants always goes to alcohol when there is another intoxicant that we often consume far more of, caffeine.

Personally, I think the intoxicant with which I've had the most trouble is refined sugar. It has undeniably potent physiological effects, but it's also something that we need to survive; at least where I live in the US, though, I can easily consume quite a bit more of it than is strictly necessary for sustaining life. Craving is perhaps most readily tangible when I notice the box of donuts on the conference room table and my mouth reflexively waters, some part of my mind drifting into a Homer Simpsonesque fantasy even while I realize I just missed what my coworker was trying to tell me.