Consuming alcohol

[Geika]

I don't think that the occasional drink, even one or two a day, is anything to feel guilty about if we are observing, with fairness, our personal addictions, how we behave, and whether or not consistent practice takes the backseat when we are getting what we want or having fun. I often think of Taigu saying, "Take great care."

Gassho

[Biko]

Speaking of alcoholism. If you get the chance you should see Crazy Wisdom: The Life & Times of Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche. It's an incredible documentary on an incredible man. A tiny book of his quotations goes with me everywhere.

Gassho,
Jeffrey

[Tai Shi]

I have been totally refraining from alcohol and all illegal drugs for almost 28 years, this out of choice. I have been totally away from tobacco in any form for almost 14 years. About 3 years ago I gave up caffeine in any known form. Now I would find the taste and effects of such commodities repugnant, and I feel better all the way around. Not to judge for others, this is the way for me, and with my commitment to Buddhist ideas and practice as of late, about two years ago, I am content with these conscious decisions as each of these substances in their on times became a problem. My decisions add to family life and interactions with friends.

[Biko]

On the subject of sugar, caffeine and the like: I dont really consider them intoxicants per se. They are certainly not good for your health but I dont think anyone has ever cheated on their spouse as a direct result of one too many cups of coffee.
**Literally typing as I drink a cup of coffee**

Gassho,
Jeffrey

[Tom]

Dear All, there's a lot of research now and dependence is closely linked to genetics.

[Ansan]

My father was an alcoholic. He joined AA and swore off for years until he developed a heart condition. His doctor advised him to have an occasional drink to help him relax (his blood pressure was very high). He died at the age of 52 after multiple attacks. That was back in the 60s. I was always concerned about inheriting this condition, so I abstained but relaxed my attitude as the years went by. My husband made his own beer...who can resist a good homemade Belgian brew? Now I usually have one beer in the late evening and share one with my husband while we discuss the events of the day just before going to bed. Most of the time, I never finish it completely. Sleep is more important to me. Circumstances dictate how we should proceed in life and its challenges, including the pleasure of sharing with the man I love while sitting on the porch watching the meteors. Middle of the road. That is where the joy is. No guilt. No addiction.

Gassho,
Ka

ps. Yikes!!! Does anyone even really consider having an alcoholic drink at Zazen?? I won't even have a cup of green tea until afterward.

[Mitty-san]

I've seen drinking create a lot of problems but never seen it solve one.

According the US government's CDC at http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/alcohol-use.htm:

...Excessive alcohol use led to approximately 88,000 deaths and 2.5 million years of potential life lost (YPLL) each year in the United States from 2006 – 2010, shortening the lives of those who died by an average of 30 years. Further, excessive drinking was responsible for 1 in 10 deaths among working-age adults aged 20-64 years. The economic costs of excessive alcohol consumption in 2010 were estimated at $249 billion, or $2.05 a drink.

Maybe it's partly just people my age, but a lot of activities, especially in college, revolve around binge drinking. I've heard about and personally seen a lot of stupid drunken behavior, damaging themselves, property, or relationships in bad ways. I've even seen people plan to behave irresponsibly when they get drunk because they know they can use the alcohol as an excuse. I've also seen people get peer-pressured into drinking and then later develop a drinking problem because of it. Some people can handle it but others can't and it creates problems for them and those around them. From my experience, when drinking, at best people just don't get any worse than they normally are. I understand it can help with social bonding or to relax but that can be said of a lot of less-risky things.

On the other hand, I do have to agree, one wine or beer probably won't cause any problems by itself.

You don't have to worry if the bite of a snake is poisonous if you don't pick up the snake.

Gassho, Jishin

Jishin, nice quote. I must concur.

,

Paul

Sat today.

[Jishin]

Consuming alcohol

Jishin, nice quote. I must concur.

I think I made it you so I am going to patent it.

"You don't have to worry if the bite of a snake is poisonous if you don't pick up the snake."- Jishin 2016 [emoji767]



Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Sekishi]

"You don't have to worry if the bite of a snake is poisonous if you don't pick up the snake."- Jishin 2016 [emoji767]

"In a room full of ill-trained snake handlers, your being still and empty-handed may give someone else the courage to put their snake down." - Sekishi 2016 (C)

"Snakes, why did it have to be snakes?" - Indiana Jones 1936 / - George Lucas 1981 (C)



Gassho,
Sekishi
#sattoday
#nosnakes

[Mitty-san]

Ha, I'll have to add the copyright symbol when using these quotes now.

Sekishi, nice quote too. Remembering your previous post in this thread now, it's a good thing what you do.



Paul

Sat today.

[jgotthart]

I would definitely agree with Jundo. With my own experience, I quit drinking quite a while before I came to Zen because I tend to have a very addictive personality. So for myself I know that if I were to consume any amount of alcohol it would just be another topper on the pile of suffering. I definitely don't see anything wrong with it for someone that can handle it in moderation. Also, I know as it was mentioned, that other forms of Buddhism (such as Therevada) ban it completely because of the idea that it's an avenue towards breaking the other precepts and that it damages the mind and so on. Just thought I would throw my experience with alcohol into this conversation. Good luck with your practice.

Gassho,
John

[Zenmei]

I'm an addict using the dharma as my recovery program (literally: http://www.refugerecovery.org, feel free to msg me if you want to know more). Working with addicts (chemical, process addictions, eating disorders, all the same, not-two) I see how addiction is really just an extreme version of the craving and aversion that's a normal part of the human experience, and it's exactly what the Buddha was talking about in the first two noble truths.

Some drugs have a stronger dopamine response, so they may lead to negative life consequences faster, but there's no real difference between alcohol and crystal meth. Or slot machines. Or cutting. Or computer duster.

For people who aren't using a drug to avoid their own dissatisfaction, maybe a glass of wine with dinner is fine? I don't understand you weirdos who can do that, though

Grasshoppers,
Dudley
(sat today)

[Cyd]

That is very good Program Dudley I knew the Founder years and years ago grewup in the same town at same time went to the same shows.
metta to you.


Gassho
Cyd
Sat-2-Day

[Mitty-san]

John, Dudley, and anyone else who has had problems with addiction, thanks for sharing your experience. If you don't mind asking, does being surrounded by alcohol at many social events or even having events centered around drinking make things harder for you to stay sober/clean?

I've seen social pressure around alcohol push people into places they should never have gone. It's one reason my opinion on alcohol is more towards none than moderation.

Gassho,

Paul

Sat today.

[Jishin]

Consuming alcohol

John, Dudley, and anyone else who has had problems with addiction, thanks for sharing your experience. If you don't mind asking, does being surrounded by alcohol at many social events or even having events centered around drinking make things harder for you to stay sober/clean?

I've seen social pressure around alcohol push people into places they should never have gone. It's one reason my opinion on alcohol is more towards none than moderation.

Gassho,

Paul

Sat today.

I been sober for 17 years, 2 months, six days, 11 hours and 15 minutes.

In the beginning I had the fear of relapse. Now it just smells bad and people act out of character when drinking. Sometimes way out of character and this really puts me off. Alcohol is a plague. It is a mind altering substance and it should be banned regardless as to whether it alters the mind a little or a lot.

"You don't have to worry if the bite of a snake is poisonous if you don't pick up the snake."- Jishin 2016

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_