The beast, and other representatives of the darkness...

[doogie]

You can keep stacking those blocks of words one top of the other, but they'll never reach the moon. They'll never take you where you imagine you want to go. And neither will Jundo, I think. He's just a zen teacher. All he can do is point the way as best he can. You might have more luck with Jesusjungfreudghandigandalf, but I haven't seen that guy around in a while. Anyway, I'm just a beginner at all this. I don't know much -- and hopefully I'll know even less after I go sit.

Gassho,

David

[lindabeekeeper]

What is the role of a Sangha? Our forum is the only interaction that we have. It is our community of like practitioners, where we should be able to practice the Dharma in relative safety and support.

It is important that we maintain a certain harmony in order to feel safe when it becomes necessary for our fellow practitioners to question whether we truly understand what we are practicing. If you are a dancer or skater, sometimes you need people observing your practice to see where you are going wrong. I think a Sangha should be like those spotters. And the suggestions for adjustments to your practice should be delivered with honesty, love, and compassion. That is not to say that you always will like what you hear.

Unlike many other types of forums, as a Sangha, I don't think this should be a soapbox (even though I suspect this reply sounds like one). Nor to I think it helps develop an environment of love and safety if there are sarcastic, rude or nasty replies. The Buddha said that Right Speech is part of the Eightfold Path for a good reason.

Well, I think that we need to decide if we are going to behave like a Sangha or behave like any old social networking site. I personally am here to study with a teacher and within a Sangha.

I really hope everyone can let their anger go and support one another.

Linda

[Gregor]

Linda,

Nice sentiments. I'm with you 100% on this. We need to maintain a special sense about things and tread delicately just as we would if this were a brick and mortar Zendo.

This is a special place, let's have respect for that.

This day has passed.
Our lives, too, are closing.
Like fish with little water,
Joy will not last.
Let us work with pure effort.
Work as we would were our heads aflame.
Be mindful of impermanence.
Be careful of idleness.

[Stephanie]

I suppose I now must express my thoughts in haiku format:

Silence is broken
By the sound of Jundo's ego
Flapping in the breeze

:roll:

[Gregor]

Stephanie,

I might be overstepping my place here. But, your comments bother me. I think they show a lack of respect. Not just to Jundo. But, Also a lack of respect for the people who consider this forum their place of practice.

I think the time has come for you to stop leaving the negative comments on the board. It's inappropriate.

I'm sorry perhaps I'm breaking the golden rule myself. But, I cannot sit by and watch this. Please consider what you have to say and the intentions behind it before you hit that submit button.

[Gregor]

Harry,

Your right. My way of wording that was a bit much. However, I'm merely trying to imply that the snarkiness, sarcasm, and negativity is inappropriate here none the less.

But, I suppose we should be careful about these things wherever we are.

[Gregor]

Hi Harry,


That's true it does take two to tango after all. Thanks for the reminder of that. I'll chalk it up to another lesson that needed learning.

[Gregor]

Harry,

You'd be surprised. We'll have to compare rap sheets sometime.

take care,

Greg

[Kelly M.]

Thank you Linda!

This is a Zendo, and Jundo is the Sensei. A Zendo’s purpose, I think, is to create atmosphere conducive to leaning the Dharma. I sometime wonder if rules should perhaps be stricter around here.

Harry, you are an intelligent individual and usually make very valid points. You add a flavour to this community that is all you own and it would be a shame to loose you. But you make it a habit (especially lately) to carry yourself in a sarcastic, unnecessarily blunt and often rude manner. I don’t think it is your intention, but in your writing you come across as self absorbed at times. Even your avatar! This is a shame because I suspect that this is probably not your character in person. But I feel it does take away from this Zendo, and is not appropriate in a Zendo setting. I don’t think you would speak this way if this Zendo were made of bricks a mortar; or perhaps you would.

In the past few days you have consistently complained about religion, Buddhism, group mentality, authority, Jundo etc. You have even suggested that you did not care for our ‘motel’ and intended to leave. Yet hear you are. You continue to post. You continue to complain. Jundo said run (don’t walk) should you disagree with his methods. Yet you drag your feet. What is it about sharing your opinion that makes you unable to stop? Even your signature tries to usher me to your blog so that I may read further into your insights.

I fear that this post will be read with a harsher tone than it was written, yet you yourself Harry have expressed your displeasure with attempts to sugar coat opinion.

I hope equilibrium will return to Treeleaf soon, but I suppose if there are issues that need to be dealt with, now is the time rather than suppressing them.

I mean no disrespect Harry,
Gassho,
Kelly

[Ankai]

I suppose I now must express my thoughts in haiku format:

Silence is broken
By the sound of Jundo's ego
Flapping in the breeze

Is it "ego," or is it simply people demanding that the teacher follow the students?
The guy's not perfect. Doesn't claim to be. He's offering a service that some of us who can't get to a sitting in person appreciate. It's totally voluntary on his part. He doesn'towe anyone anything. but I, speaking for myself, at least feel i owe him my respect for that. This is, for all intents and purposes, his Zendo.
If he sometimes acts like a teacher even though some have seen his human frailties and weaknesses, so be it. he's human. He makes mistakes. He discusses them freely. But that does't mean he answers to any of us.
And he's still the teacher here.

[Fuken]

Q: How much "ego" do you need?
A: Just enough so that you don't step in front of a bus.
Shunryu Suzuki

:lol:

Sorry I am sure you all think this thread is serious, but I think it is a hoot.

A pretty wise dead guy once said that a sangha is like a rock tumbler.
you pour a bunch of rough stones in it, let them tumble around and bounce off of each other and after some time they become smooth and polished.

May you all be free from suffering, really.
In gassho
Jordan

[Stephanie]

Thanks for the sanity, Jordan. I find a lot of this stuff funny too, but apparently my sensibilities aren't delicate enough.

I didn't come here for a teacher, I came here looking for sangha. And I think I have responded to and treated Jundo with respect up until today, after he was very disrespectful and dismissive toward me.

But whatever, I find this silly. Being ganged up against, insulted, censored, and told I need to change basic personality traits like the way I think and express myself to be accepted here--what sort of crap is this? If you think my self-esteem is so low that I would accept these "suggestions" and "instructions," you're barking up the wrong tree. I'm perfectly open to criticism, but none of you all have even taken the beginning steps of actually trying to listen to or respond to what I have to say, so none of your criticisms give me any information other than your personal preferences for others' behavior and your willingness to jump on the bandwagon of "Dear Leader."

I know I have contributed a lot of positive and good-humored things to this board. The sudden consensus that I am so negative because I have responded to fire with fire today strikes me as insincere.

[Gregor]

Jordan,

Thanks for the reminder not to take things so seriously.


Stephanie,

I guess points of views are bound to differ. It's really amazing how different people can look at the same words and interpret them in different ways. I wonder if there is something to be learned here?

[Stephanie]

Honestly, looking back over this thread, it's sort of shocking. Perhaps I just seem wordy and pretentious to some of you, but the stuff I chose to share here is actually deeply personal. I risked sharing it because of the trust and comfort level I had built here, but instead of being shown gentleness, I was torn into. Sheesh! I've learned my lesson about taking self-disclosure risks in a public forum, that's for sure. At least I can empathize now with Will as to why he was deleting posts--when you're treated like this, it makes you feel violated that you even shared anything at all.

[Ankai]

wow.