Hi,
I was not raised Catholic (not with a name like "Cohen"
), but allow me to offer some perspectives on how Zen Buddhism may be perfectly compatible. Mind you, it takes an open mind on all "sides" of the issue to find the "sideless" side. Zen, especially Shikantaza, is a radical allowing of "what is" whatever the "is" is. So ...
- The belief in a God who created the world and still actively intervenes in his creation – we are talking about a theistic belief (i.e. God who is still active) as opposed to a deistic belief (i.e. a God who does not intervene and is completely passive).
If God intervenes (assuming there is a "God") ... Just Sit, chop wood and fetch water. If God does not intervene (or there is no "God") ... ... Just Sit, chop wood and fetch water.
- The belief in the original sin that is inherited by every new born child. Because of Adam’s and Eve’s original sin (you have to believe in them as well as a Catholic) every new born human is automatically a sinner as well (so much for fairness).
Sinner or no, original or not ... ... Just Sit, chop wood and fetch water. Just do as one can to abide by the Precepts ... not to kill, not to steal, not to covet one's neighbors wife (misusing sexuality), and all the same.
- The belief that Jesus Christ was the actual son of God (and whose mother was a virgin) who died on the cross to reconcile God with humankind.
If Jesus died for our sins and his mother was a virgin ... Just Sit, chop wood and fetch water. If Jesus did not, and his mother was not ... Just Sit, chop wood and fetch water.
- The belief in a real heaven/hell (as opposed to a mere metaphoric one) and the devil
Buddhists have had very literal beliefs in "hells". Many Buddhists traditionally did (still do!) believe in rebirth in heavens or hells based on volitional actions (Karma) in this and past lives. Some of the descriptions of "Buddhist Hells" are as hellacious as anything in Western imagination (although the images seem to have developed independently) ... complete with pitchforks and brimstone ... look here. Not for the squeemish. I have seen similar images here and there at temples in China, Japan, Thailand and Korea ... images that would make any Fire & Brimstone preacher in the Bible Belt faint. Just like in the West, images of "hell" were often used by Buddhist preachers to get people to "be good". WARNING: 18 and OVER
I personally am a skeptical, but open minded, agnostic on literal, mechanical models of rebirth. It is not vital to my practice. But I do believe ... and see all the time ... people who make very terrible "hells" for themself and others in this life through their actions in this world. As I often say ...
Buddhism also has an image of "the Devil" ... the tempter "Mara" who, in the old Suttas, is often seen trying to lead Buddha off a good course. Does Mara exist literally? Well, like Kannon as a symbol of Compassion who exists through us and is "made real" when we choose our actions and whenever we do something caring and beneficial to others, Mara likewise exists through us when we do something harmful through the temptations of greed, anger and ignorance. In the sense, yes, they are real because compassion and generosity and selfishness and hate all exist as "real forces" in this universe as humans make them real through our words, thoughts and acts.
- The ethical basis of the Christian belief is completely different from Zen: as a Christian you follow the commandments because they come directly from God, the highest authority. This is a hierarchical structure – not just within the church.
Yes. Now, whether from On High or not ... don't kill, don't steal.
- And let’s not forget those little weird things like the belief that during the Holy Mass the wafer and wine are actually turned into the real flesh and blood of Jesus Christ (for Protestants this is only symbolic, but according to the Vatican, the head of the Catholic Church, this is not just symbolic, but real!)
Take Communion ... don't take Communion ... in any case, Just Sit, chop wood and fetch water.
By one interpretation, the Buddha never quite meant that there "was not a Creator" or "not not a Creator". It was more that it is not important to his Insight. Many of the images we encounter in Buddhism are not different really ... Vairocana Buddha is the Universal Buddha of All Reality, the Dharmaskaya ... and Amida Buddha (Pure Land and Zen co-exist and have merged in much of Asia) is a figure who, if one merely has faith in him, will take you to his heaven when you die.
So, I must disagree.
I sometimes say that one can practice Zen Buddhism while also a Republican, Democrat or apolitical, Catholic, Jewish or Muslim, Atheist or Agnostic. I would say that, so long as it is a belief system that avoids hate, violence, excess greed and such (e.g., a "Zen Buddhist Nazi" will go a dark way), all can mix.
The same could be said of the vast majority of Zen Temples I have visited in Japan.
Gassho, J
I was not raised Catholic (not with a name like "Cohen"
), but allow me to offer some perspectives on how Zen Buddhism may be perfectly compatible. Mind you, it takes an open mind on all "sides" of the issue to find the "sideless" side. Zen, especially Shikantaza, is a radical allowing of "what is" whatever the "is" is. So ... - The belief in a God who created the world and still actively intervenes in his creation – we are talking about a theistic belief (i.e. God who is still active) as opposed to a deistic belief (i.e. a God who does not intervene and is completely passive).
If God intervenes (assuming there is a "God") ... Just Sit, chop wood and fetch water. If God does not intervene (or there is no "God") ... ... Just Sit, chop wood and fetch water.
- The belief in the original sin that is inherited by every new born child. Because of Adam’s and Eve’s original sin (you have to believe in them as well as a Catholic) every new born human is automatically a sinner as well (so much for fairness).
Sinner or no, original or not ... ... Just Sit, chop wood and fetch water. Just do as one can to abide by the Precepts ... not to kill, not to steal, not to covet one's neighbors wife (misusing sexuality), and all the same.
- The belief that Jesus Christ was the actual son of God (and whose mother was a virgin) who died on the cross to reconcile God with humankind.
If Jesus died for our sins and his mother was a virgin ... Just Sit, chop wood and fetch water. If Jesus did not, and his mother was not ... Just Sit, chop wood and fetch water.
- The belief in a real heaven/hell (as opposed to a mere metaphoric one) and the devil
Buddhists have had very literal beliefs in "hells". Many Buddhists traditionally did (still do!) believe in rebirth in heavens or hells based on volitional actions (Karma) in this and past lives. Some of the descriptions of "Buddhist Hells" are as hellacious as anything in Western imagination (although the images seem to have developed independently) ... complete with pitchforks and brimstone ... look here. Not for the squeemish. I have seen similar images here and there at temples in China, Japan, Thailand and Korea ... images that would make any Fire & Brimstone preacher in the Bible Belt faint. Just like in the West, images of "hell" were often used by Buddhist preachers to get people to "be good". WARNING: 18 and OVER
I personally am a skeptical, but open minded, agnostic on literal, mechanical models of rebirth. It is not vital to my practice. But I do believe ... and see all the time ... people who make very terrible "hells" for themself and others in this life through their actions in this world. As I often say ...
Buddhism also has an image of "the Devil" ... the tempter "Mara" who, in the old Suttas, is often seen trying to lead Buddha off a good course. Does Mara exist literally? Well, like Kannon as a symbol of Compassion who exists through us and is "made real" when we choose our actions and whenever we do something caring and beneficial to others, Mara likewise exists through us when we do something harmful through the temptations of greed, anger and ignorance. In the sense, yes, they are real because compassion and generosity and selfishness and hate all exist as "real forces" in this universe as humans make them real through our words, thoughts and acts.
- The ethical basis of the Christian belief is completely different from Zen: as a Christian you follow the commandments because they come directly from God, the highest authority. This is a hierarchical structure – not just within the church.
Yes. Now, whether from On High or not ... don't kill, don't steal.
- And let’s not forget those little weird things like the belief that during the Holy Mass the wafer and wine are actually turned into the real flesh and blood of Jesus Christ (for Protestants this is only symbolic, but according to the Vatican, the head of the Catholic Church, this is not just symbolic, but real!)
Take Communion ... don't take Communion ... in any case, Just Sit, chop wood and fetch water.
By one interpretation, the Buddha never quite meant that there "was not a Creator" or "not not a Creator". It was more that it is not important to his Insight. Many of the images we encounter in Buddhism are not different really ... Vairocana Buddha is the Universal Buddha of All Reality, the Dharmaskaya ... and Amida Buddha (Pure Land and Zen co-exist and have merged in much of Asia) is a figure who, if one merely has faith in him, will take you to his heaven when you die.
So, I must disagree.
I sometimes say that one can practice Zen Buddhism while also a Republican, Democrat or apolitical, Catholic, Jewish or Muslim, Atheist or Agnostic. I would say that, so long as it is a belief system that avoids hate, violence, excess greed and such (e.g., a "Zen Buddhist Nazi" will go a dark way), all can mix.
The same could be said of the vast majority of Zen Temples I have visited in Japan.
Gassho, J
Gassho
John
SatToday
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