Perspectives on Non-Violence

[Shokai]

Hi Jenell;

Originally Posted by Jenell
Isn't religion mostly, greed, hatred and ignorance?

I prefer not to confuse religion with the manner in which people conduct themselves in the name of religion.
One definition of religion is:

a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

My original statement with which you take umbrage was:

Isn't it strange how we cite religion as the cause of wars

In my opinion, very often, groups of people find it accommodating to use religion as a case for war (or violence) when in fact the moral codes put forward by the various flavours of religion are not in keeping with such actions. Most times it is the fear of what "they" may do to us (xenophobia) that causes folks to rally round the flag. And then, it's convienent to say, "Well, they are not like us so we must convert/teach them!." And before you know it, both theys are lobbing bombs at one another and saying Allah or God or Yaweh or Bramha (insert which ever name fits at the time) will see us through.

So, as I said; Let's not confuse religion with the manner in which people conduct themselves in the name of religion.

respectfully submitted.
gassho, Shokai

[Mp]

... I condemn them without feeling superior or inferior to the people who do such acts ...

I agree Jundo, this part I feel is so important! Thank you.

Gassho
Shingen

[Daijo]

It's also important to allow people to handle things in their own way. After this recent tragedy in Boston, I personally can't help but to feel a sense of sadness for the suspect. After all, he's a child, about the same age as my daughter. BUT, I keep that thought to myself while others are expressing their rage and trying to fill their need for revenge or justice. It does none of us any good to tell them they need to feel sorry for the bomber as well as the victims. They have to figure that out for themselves.

[Shokai]

Thank you Jenell;

Interesting viewpoint;

that religion is mostly greed, hatred, and ignorance.

We speak of "beginingless greed, hatred and ignorance,"
Do awe and fear and fight or flight supercede?
Were these the only motivations to codify existence?
Where do loving kindness and compassion fit in?
It's not that I don't hear you, it's that I prefer not to emphasize these negative facets.
Positive reinforcement is imperative.
Every day I expend great effort to atone for greed, hatred and ignorance and their by-products.
Let's not confuse religion with the manner in which people (some beings) conduct themselves in the name of religion.

gassho, Shokai

[Yugen]

I would like to very humbly suggest that what might be contributing to the present dustup is the problem of definition of the word religion. I think the principles that comprise a belief system and their application or practice by individuals are two different things. The word "religion" originates in religio, which refers to a group of people practicing (their chosen belief system). In the last century, the word religion (at least in the US) has taken on more of an identification in common usage with monotheistic worship. Universal human principles such as love, respect, the equality of all persons, etc. are not in themselves religion. They can be part of a creed, but how they are applied or practiced by groups of people is "religion." Human behaviors such as greed, anger, or violence are added to the mix when people practice in faith communities and other variables such as politics, organizational issues and rivalries, etc. enter the picture.

I think the challenge here is one of definition and perspective, not lack of respect for diversity (this requires definition as well). I presume we are referring to diversity of thought and belief.

Deep bows
Yugen

[Kyonin]

I think the challenge here is one of definition and perspective, not lack of respect for diversity (this requires definition as well). I presume we are referring to diversity of thought and belief.

There should be only one religion: generosity.

I wish somehow we all understand that.

Gassho,

Kyonin

[jus]

"my religion is very simple, my religion is kindness"- dalai lama.

[Yugen]

Hi Jennell,
In my own practice I disaggregate what one does in the outside world (in terms of "accomplishments") from the level of civility and discourse each member deserves in this sangha. I believe respect and tolerance for the opinions and "voice" of all members is a bedrock principle of this Sangha, regardless of their "station" in life (which I would suggest is an illusion to begin with). I don't need to know what you do outside the Sangha to know that you are a highly intelligent and thoughtful person with much to contribute. I have much to learn from your writing, particularly in those areas where it challenges my own views. The respect I have for your opinion, as well as my practice of listening, will also be the same for any Sangha member, whether they are accomplished or great ridiculous screw ups in life like me. In turn, the skilful listening and respectful behavior I attempt to practice here will I hope radiate into my dealings with all beings.

When we sit zazen and practice as a Sangha who we are and what we "do" falls away I believe. That's why the precepts are so important to me. In the absence of a social pecking order or hierarchy established by the usual criteria (what do you do? how much do you make? what's your title?) the effort to practice skillful speech and listening, and recognition of not only our interconnectedness, but of the inherent worth and dignity of all beings is sacred. That's why respect for your opinion and voice is a cornerstone of this Sangha's foundation, and Buddhist practice.

Deep bows
Yugen

[Andrea1974]

"Love and do what you want" - St. Augustine (jus-t to second jus' post )

[Heishu]

Jenell,

I hope that I am not speaking out of line here, I do see your point. I tend to agree with your opinion of "religion". It is sad that such a thing needs to be said but truth is truth. Religion no matter what the 'faith in' part of it may be, is something formed by the opinions of people and yes it gets boggled.

Yugen spoke of following the precepts and this is what I have been attempting to do since Jukai. Sometimes it is easy sometimes it is not. Yet I try every day now to follow my vows. Why I am I stating this? For me attempting to stay on track in my personal practice is to avoid confrontation and that for me is a daily and very hard struggle.

You are of course correct that you have a right to express your thoughts as we all are. Now for the hard part. The response to what I might have said might be negative and I might not like that it is that way but I now try to let it be. Like water off a ducks back I try my best to let it be.

I value everyone's comments at Treeleaf as a lesson in life. I hardly ever agree with every stated opinion but I do learn from all. Please don't let this little ripple in the stream of thought keep you from sharing your valuable thoughts with the rest of us.

My apologies to all for butting in but I was learning something in this thread and I needed to raise my hand and express my opinion also.

Gassho
Heishu

[Yugen]

I'm glad you are here Jenell and look forward to more of your writing and practice. I have much to learn as well, about many things. Have spent so much of my life "knowing things," and that didn't work out so well.... :-D

Deep bows
Yugen

[Amelia]

I always wonder why people are looking for a particular amount of religious diversity here: a forum for practitioners of and people interested in learning Soto Zen Buddhism.

[Jundo]

This is no different from Polish Catholics talking about eliminating the plague of Jews, Jews talking about Palestinians, Croatians about Serbs, Belfast Protestants about Catholics ... terrible and to be condemned wherever it appears.

The one thing I can say is that most other Buddhist condemn this in the strongest terms, and gradually, by active protest ... and find no doctrinal basis for it in the Buddha's Teachings any place, in any Tradition. This is not Buddhism ... just ethnic and religious hate wrapped in a colored robe ...

Buddhist monk uses racism and rumours to spread hatred in Burma
Thousands watch YouTube videos of 45-year-old 'Burmese Bin Laden' who preaches against country's Muslim minority

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/18/buddhist-monk-spreads-hatred-burma

[Amelia]

Sad to read about what is going on in Burma and Sri Lanka. Metta verses.