Personality cults and fundamentalism

[Jundo]

Re: Personality cults and fundamentalism

I would not say it in the same legendary Chet style, but frankly your arrogance is quite revealing.

Yes, let us not yell and curse the fellow who is yelling and cursing the fellows he considers intolerant for cursing and yelling at others. Civil discourse here please, without a tone of anger. One can clearly and directly express disagreement or even strong indignation, and one's opinion and views, without a tone of anger. Do not add additional intolerance on top of seeming intolerance.

And "ditto" to what Taigu wrote in that beautiful post.

[Shonin]

Re: Personality cults and fundamentalism

Jundo, thanks for the reminder. That perpetuation of negativity is like a carefully laid trap hidden under the leaves, by crazy ex military guys that grew up laying traps...oh tangent!

*starts knawing at his ankle to get free*

Dave _/_

[jrh001]

Re: Personality cults and fundamentalism

A wise fish swims past a baited hook.

JH

[Hoko]

Re: Personality cults and fundamentalism

1. 1. May he(she) be free of suffering; may he(she) feel safe and still.

2. May he(she) be free of enmity; may he(she) be loving, grateful and kind.

3. May he(she) be healthy and at ease in all his(her) ills.

4. May he(she) be at peace, embracing all conditions of life

Gassho,
-K2

[Shonin]

Re: Personality cults and fundamentalism

Jrh, are you saying i have a big mouth and little impulse control ?

Dave _/_

[Kevin Solway]

Re: Personality cults and fundamentalism

I think we need a little less certainty and conviction and just a little more meditative inquiry.

You can certainly speak for yourself on that score, but you need to be careful when you assume that what is true for yourself is also true for others.

Other people aren't the problem.

Are you absolutely sure about that? Or is this just your personal opinion, which you claim to be in need of more meditative inquiry?

Excuse me, there's this religion I've heard of that refutes this idea of security . . . 'Buddhism'.

A Buddha is secure in his birthlessness.

[jrh001]

Re: Personality cults and fundamentalism

Jrh, are you saying i have a big mouth and little impulse control ?
Dave _/_

Hi Dave,

No, not at all... would never say anything like that. Tobiishi summed it up nicely, I think.

Kevin, what is your intention in posting these videos? I don't see how their content contributes to this Sangha at all...

Let the ball go through to the keeper, no need to play it (...talking cricket not baseball).

JohnH

[Shonin]

Re: Personality cults and fundamentalism

LOL, jrh. It would have been okay if ya did mean that , not so far off from the truth as I often delude myself into thinking.

( i know what ya meant, am completely teasing).

Am still trying to figure out how invisible can be pink too( in the relative sense). Can the unicorn become visible if it wants? Assuming of course we all agree it does exist. After all if it's invisible and doesn't bump into folks how would we know, or distinguish it from other invisible animals/mystical creatures even if it did bump into someone.

I mean the horn might just come across as say... an indigo rhino's horn. Or maybe not unlike some still existing various colored dinosaurs?
This type of deeper conversation always has me at a loss for words.

Dave _/_

[Taigu]

Re: Personality cults and fundamentalism

Hi Kevin,

Although I will post a vid on Monday as a kind of answer to what you are putting forward, I sense from what I get so far that you are very much drunk with your self confidence and your Buddhist intoxication has unfortunately taken over the kind and open heart that you are. The problem with Buddhism and solitary practice is that it can lead to a very deluded spot made of rigidity and dogmaticism. It is well known in our tradition. No matter what people will tell you kindly or not, miroring your own style, you are not prepared to buldge. That basic attitude has nothing to do with courage and strengh, it is the stubborn state of ignorance itself that hides away its own reality through the display of fancy conceptual statements and rhetorical games. When you are given one of the main teachings of Buddhism as food for thoughts, nameley that others are not the problem, you stick to your own blaming pattern. And then serve people with a mystical statement which is a direct expression of an idealistic view of reality, the so called birthlessness in which the Buddha is secure. Well, it seems we are not practising the same Buddhism, but what I can say is that bullying and going on a cruisade is not my understanding of Buddhism. When a difficulty arises, I tend to always come back to the source, my own deluded mind and action. Wraping oneself with authority and blaming others has been the practice of many deluded monks, priests, lamas and masters of the past. You are happily joining the club when calling for a Jihad. Why dont you hear what Jundo and so many other people say?

Anyway, take great care and please, try to listen to these distant voices trying to reach your original face through the thick veil of certainty.

A bit of poetry, a walk in the woods, playing with children...

gassho


Taigu

[Kevin Solway]

Re: Personality cults and fundamentalism

Although I will post a vid on Monday as a kind of answer to what you are putting forward, I sense from what I get so far that you are very much drunk with your self confidence and your Buddhist intoxication has unfortunately taken over the kind and open heart that you are.

Well if I'm intoxicated then I've been intoxicated for about twenty years, which is a rather long time to be intoxicated.

I'm interested to know exactly what it is that I've said that you think is not open-hearted, so I'll look forward to your video. I will hope to see some solid proof rather than your own personal, biased speculations.

fancy conceptual statements and rhetorical games.

These are what I see coming from you.

I particularly want to hear the specifics of what I've said that you consider to be wrong, rather than the vague speculations you've put forward.

When you are given one of the main teachings of Buddhism as food for thoughts, nameley that others are not the problem, you stick to your own blaming pattern.

I was pointing out the fact that you are a hypocrite. If "others are not the problem" then why are you stubbornly telling me that I'm wrong and blaming me? YOU are the problem, remember?

bullying and going on a cruisade is not my understanding of Buddhism.

"Bullying" is your own personal interpretation, which doesn't have anything to do with reality.

Do you honestly think I'm "bullying" the Dalai Lama, who probably isn't even the slightest bit interested in my criticisms?

Or do you think I'm bullying Tibetan Buddhists in general? In reality, I'm just speaking the truth in the hope that it will inspire some people to do something about it.

The Buddha spent time to debunk false religions and philosophies, just as I do. If that's what you call a "crusade", then so be it.

I suspect that you are sensitive about these matters because they have touched the raw nerve of your own attachments.

[Tobiishi]

Re: Personality cults and fundamentalism

Am still trying to figure out how invisible can be pink too( in the relative sense). Can the unicorn become visible if it wants? Assuming of course we all agree it does exist. After all if it's invisible and doesn't bump into folks how would we know, or distinguish it from other invisible animals/mystical creatures even if it did bump into someone.

Well Dave, its funny you should mention relativity- I actually know the unicorn is pink because of the red-shift apparent in the invisible light spectrum reflected off her. And since I know she's not always running away from me at relativistic speeds, it must mean she's pink. Right?

I'm going to take my deluded, blame-shifting intolerant bullying self and put him in a box and duct-tape it shut now, because I don't want to be blind to my own intolerance twenty years from now.

gassho,
tobiishi

[Taigu]

Re: Personality cults and fundamentalism

Kevin,

Than you for answering. You are certainly not a problem to me and yes real intoxication can last long, self importance in particular.
I am not blaming you but doing my job as a Buddhist teacher and spiritual friend, you may take it or leave it but once awaken from the dream the arrogance of your own words will be so ridiculous to your ears.
As I said to you already, I share many of your views but you are too full of yourself to listen to anybody when they suggest that style matters, let alone to listen to a guy like me, just sewing and sitting and good for nothing. And you are right I am presumably an hypocrite. When people try to approach a wounded dog, they run the risk of a bite or two. Bless you.
By the way, what do you wish people to do once they realize the truth of your words?

The nature of your answer shows only what we all have guessed already, you are only interested in picking up a fight.


take care and yes, walks, children, simple things...

gassho


Taigu

[Kevin Solway]

Re: Personality cults and fundamentalism

Than you for answering. You are certainly not a problem to me and yes real intoxication can last long, self importance in particular. I am not blaming you but doing my job as a Buddhist teacher and spiritual friend, you may take it or leave it but once awaken from the dream the arrogance of your own words will be so ridiculous to your ears.

Taigu, these words you say are mere speculation on your part.

By the way, what do you wish people to do once they realize the truth of your words?

Once people realize the truth of my words, they will be realizing truths. And even the realizing of small truths is a step in the right direction.

The nature of your answer shows only what we all have guessed already, you are only interested in picking up a fight.

But don't you see that that's how your responses appear to me? Instead of just admitting that I'm right, or that my methods are not for you, you are being unnecessarily adversarial.

[disastermouse]

Re: Personality cults and fundamentalism

I think we need a little less certainty and conviction and just a little more meditative inquiry.

You can certainly speak for yourself on that score, but you need to be careful when you assume that what is true for yourself is also true for others.

"I know you are but what am I?" Seriously - that was the bottom line of what you just wrote.

Other people aren't the problem.

Are you absolutely sure about that? Or is this just your personal opinion, which you claim to be in need of more meditative inquiry?

It doesn't matter if I'm sure of it - does it ring true for you or anyone else listening to our little dialogue at home? If it doesn't, very well - the windmill is that-a-way, sir.

Excuse me, there's this religion I've heard of that refutes this idea of security . . . 'Buddhism'.

A Buddha is secure in his birthlessness.

I'm personally having a hard time believing you would know how a Buddha feels - but let's study the actions of a Buddha, shall we? In Sidd's time, there was an incredibly unfair caste system in India. What did Siddhartha do about that? He ignored the caste system within his own community. What did he not do? He did not start a political war with the 'awful, corrupt, stupid' Brahmins. I'd say he even refused to categorize them as stupid or corrupt. His way of combating ignorance wasn't combat at all - it was acceptance. "Yes, yes, stupid things are happening in the world, but here we are dedicated to sanity. Here there is a place for earnest inquirers."

Chet

[disastermouse]

Re: Personality cults and fundamentalism

The nature of your answer shows only what we all have guessed already, you are only interested in picking up a fight.

But don't you see that that's how your responses appear to me? Instead of just admitting that I'm right, or that my methods are not for you, you are being unnecessarily adversarial.

You brought the toy to the playpen and we've all been playing around with it a little bit.

I wish you well, Kevin - but alas, I don't wish you success in your current endeavor because I also wish success for the Tibetans. Indeed, however their political fate goes, they have a legitimate place in the greater world of Buddhism.

Chet