Proposed Change To The Treeleaf Eko Dedication

[gaurdianaq]

I feel the same way the other way around, Ania, although wonder whether the whole idea that women and men should be a certain way is largely outmoded. Is a woman boxer any less female? A stay-at-home dad less masculine?

In any case, I feel thankful that academic and spiritual communities I have been part of do not expect people with male bodies to like cars, sport and aggression and can instead prefer cooking, sewing and gardening.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

I feel similarly, I often find it easier to keep up a conversation with women and such. Perhaps with the exception of technical subjects and then on average I've found more luck with men (but that's probably more likely due to the fact that statistically more men are into technical things than women).

I do often think about the idea of men and women being a certain way being out dated. Like what does it matter if a woman likes traditionally male things or if a man likes traditionally female things...


Evan,
Sat today, lah

[Margherita]

I like all honoured one, but to be honest I find the one we have still valid and inclusive.
If you want to changs it, all honoured ones is the simplest way to do it.

Gassho,
Mags
ST

[Ryusoku]

Wonderful conversation!

My input is that little flower at the back of your garden seeking sunlight.

'all honored ones' is perfect! Although I 'do not' reside within LGBTQ+ my wish is we all embrace and express equanimity in every endeavour.

Thank you for courting a compassionate forum - bravo Treeleaf !


Gassho,
Brett.

[Sekiyuu]

I'm not LGBTQ+, just expressing my appreciation for everyone contributing to the discussion, not offering an opinion. I am ignorant to what the best word choice might be, so I wholly support whatever option the consensus chooses.

I have had a couple of PM's from folks who would rather not reply on the public forum.... let's remember that yes, it is 2020, but in some countries, people can still get the death penalty for being LGBTQ+! (or even a disobedient female in some cases), it is not by any means a given that every person in that community would want to be out--even though Treeleaf is a mostly pretty friendly place In the U.S., teachers at private schools are still being fired over their gender identity and sexual orientation, families are still disowning LGBTQ+ children, and the list goes on. We should be sensitive to this.

Gassho,
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH

An excellent reminder.

Gassho,
Kenny
Sat Today

[Souchi]

Thanks for bringing this topic to our attention and thanks to all who are participating in this discussion.

I like the wording "all honored ones" because it seems to me that it has the same spirit as the message "just sit/sitting" - simple and no unnecessary distinctions (although it might be necessary to note that "sitting" is also meant in an inclusive way).

I don't consider myself to be part of the LGBTQ+ community.

Gassho
Souchi

SatToday

[Koushi]

I love this discussion. One of the main reasons why I joined Treeleaf all those years ago was because of how inclusive and open to change Jundo and everyone has made this place. Even if I had a place to practice down the street (nearest Zendo is 2 hours away and I've been agoraphobic for seven years) I'd come here.

That said, I think "All honored ones" is inclusive and fits. To me, I feel like this is about intention of inclusiveness, rather than conflicting (like if someone says "All Lives Matter" in response to "Black Lives Matter" here in the States). As far as where I am in the LGBTQA+ community, I have always refrained from calling myself "straight," because I have always felt like my sexuality and gender are on a spectrum and could not be defined as x or y only.

Sorry for the extended length of the post,

Gassho,

Jesse
ST

[Tomás ESP]

I support the "all honored ones" suggestion.

Gassho, Tomás
Sat&LaH

[Jundo]

I am sorry to re-open this discussion ...

However, in editing our Treeleaf Chant Book for our upcoming Rohatsu Retreat, I discovered that we'd already had a very similar discussion last year (I and others apparently totally forgot about it ) ...

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?17404-Sangha-Discussion-Diversity-Words-and-other-Small-Changes-in-our-Chant-Books

... and had come up with a phrase that people liked:

... and to all other Honored Ones throughout history, same yet diverse Honored Ones, whose names have been forgotten or left unsaid.

Is there still positive feeling about using that phrase, or any objections to it?

Thank you for your input. You can post here or write to any of the priests privately.

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

[Eikyo]

I am sorry to re-open this discussion ...

However, in editing our Treeleaf Chant Book for our upcoming Rohatsu Retreat, I discovered that we'd already had a very similar discussion last year (I and others apparently totally forgot about it ) ...

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?17404-Sangha-Discussion-Diversity-Words-and-other-Small-Changes-in-our-Chant-Books

... and had come up with a phrase that people liked:



Is there still positive feeling about using that phrase, or any objections to it?

Thank you for your input. You can post here or write to any of the priests privately.

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

That wording sounds beautiful Jundo

Gassho,
Dee
Sat Today

[gaurdianaq]

and to all other Honored Ones throughout history, same yet diverse Honored Ones, whose names have been forgotten or left unsaid.

Love it!


Evan,
Sat today, lah

[Kyōsen]

Is there still positive feeling about using that phrase, or any objections to it?

I'm part of the LGBTQ+ community and I have positive feelings about that phrase, and no objections to it whatsoever.

Gassho
Kyōsen
Sat|LAH

[Koushi]

I am sorry to re-open this discussion ...

However, in editing our Treeleaf Chant Book for our upcoming Rohatsu Retreat, I discovered that we'd already had a very similar discussion last year (I and others apparently totally forgot about it ) ...

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?17404-Sangha-Discussion-Diversity-Words-and-other-Small-Changes-in-our-Chant-Books

... and had come up with a phrase that people liked:



Is there still positive feeling about using that phrase, or any objections to it?

Thank you for your input. You can post here or write to any of the priests privately.

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

Sounds great to me!

Gassho,
Jesse
ST

[Shonin]

I like the wording of " All honored ones" myself.
Shonin
SAT/LAH

[Shonin Risa Bear]

Same here, Shonin.

Gassho, Shonin (the other one)
sat today and lah

[Jundo]

It looks at this point that we are going with ...

... and to all other Honored Ones throughout history, same yet diverse Honored Ones, whose names have been forgotten or left unsaid.

Unless someone has a special objection to the wording? It seems generally well-received by folks.

Gassho, Jundo

STLah