Proposed Change To The Treeleaf Eko Dedication

[Eikyo]

We are not worried about upsetting those who are overly attached to the status quo. If that were the case, Treeleaf wouldn't exist in the first place The idea is to reach out to those who are not defined by the current wording, the way we have done here for women, the disabled, etc. and make sure they are not inadvertently excluded.

Gassho,
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH

Editing to add: thanks to a friend who kindly pointed out how my wording below could be misinterpreted. I do not mean to discourage participation by anyone at all. My intent behind posting the below is that we should not be catering to the needs of transphobes or people who disbelieve in the existence of other genders (my existence is not up for debate). I should have been more specific in my feedback so as to avoid misunderstanding. My original wording is below, I hope it makes sense in this context.

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I am so so glad that you said this Jakuden.
I was worried this thread could become very problematic if we start asking people from non-marginalised gender identities what they think of us and how we can make them comfortable! [emoji15]

Grateful that you and the others are taking this approach - thank you [emoji1431]

Gassho,
Dee
ST

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[Eikyo]

"All honoured ones" works well for me and I feel it is inclusive (though can you spell it honoured not honored to be inclusive of those of us in the UK [emoji14]? J/K)

I think it would be a shame to lose the ceremony and lineage chart for differently abled ancestors- I think this is a really beautiful recognition of a group of people who historically have not been celebrated, and who continue to struggle with recognition and fair treatment in society. I would defer to those who are differently abled in terms of what makes them feel best (not sure whether to count myself in that group - 20+ years of mental health issues including being sectioned/hospitalised).
This is a very compassionate practice in the Treeleaf lineage and I can't think of any reason to remove it.

In terms of the women ancestors, that is a tricky one! It is interesting in some cases how removing separation can be inclusive (e.g. "all honoured ones") while in others, like the lineage chart, removing the recognition of their difference feels like erasure.
I would suggest we keep this too, but maintain an open mind about it and continue to add to this. For example, it could become a list of ancestors from marginalised genders (which includes women, trans and nonbinary/genderqueer folks). Then of course it raises the question of - what about our LGBTQ+ ancestors, ancestors from different ethnic backgrounds (Black / Indigenous etc etc!). The list could go on - and some people may fall into different categories at the same time (very intersectional).

Those are my thoughts - apologies for running long, and for not giving a straight answer [emoji6]

Gassho,
Dee
Sat Today

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[Jundo]

Hi Guys,

Just running by an idea. I thought of keeping out "Women & Differently Abled" Ancestors Lineage documents and ceremony, and perhaps ADDING something like this to represent all other folks who may have struggled to be included in Sangha in the past (it is just a model I whipped up, click to enlarge) ...

Ancestors of All Natures.jpg

This document would also be presented to everyone undertaking Jukai now and in the future, together with the traditional Lineage and the "Women & Differently Abled" Lineage papers.

We might change the wording, e.g., instead of "For our Treeleaf Ancestors of All Natures ... " to "For All Treeleaf Ancestors ... " unless folks like the "All Natures" wording etc.

Furthermore, we can keep the Ceremony for Women Ancestors, and the Ceremony for Differently Abled Ancestors, and just ADD a small ceremony or moment to our Rohatsu Retreat to remember and commemorate the folks of other natures who struggled to gain access to Sangha through the centuries.

Would that be good?

Also, one request, would folks offering comments here but -- DO NOT -- consider themselves part of the LGBTQ community note so because, while we value everyone's opinions, we particularly want to hear from our LGBTQ members (and perhaps any other group that has suffered exclusions in the past) about what they may feel is best. Thank you. If you are not LGBTQ, would you indicate briefly so that we might know where you are coming from? I hope that is okay to ask. Also, folks should feel free to PM privately to Jakuden or Kokuu with their opinion.

(Sorry, ran long)

Gassho, J

STLah

[Meian]

I have always found the Differently Abled section inspiring, for the same reason that I find stories of those with disabilities inspiring, and talking with Treeleafers with disabilities and chronic illness inspiring. As someone living with disabilities, this reminds me of what is possible, even as society likes to talk and pretend like we're defective or don't exist at all. It reminds me that I am part of a long lineage of ancestors who accomplished great things, and to keep my standards high in service to others, which is important to me, as a matter of integrity and honor.

Short version -- the Differently Abled lineage reminds me not to let society dictate my identity or ability, but to focus on what I can do in service to all sentient beings, regardless of my physical skills at any given time.

***Edit --I now understand the rationale behind changing it completely to "all" rather than separating into groups. Possibly controversial question -- could we still keep those lineages available for those of us who find the information inspiring (those of us who are part of marginalized populations)?

Gassho, meian st lh

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[Eikyo]

Hi Guys,

Just running by an idea. I thought of keeping out "Women & Differently Abled" Ancestors Lineage documents and ceremony, and perhaps ADDING something like this to represent all other folks who may have struggled to be included in Sangha in the past (it is just a model I whipped up, click to enlarge) ...

[ATTACH=CONFIG]6866[/ATTACH]

This document would also be presented to everyone undertaking Jukai now and in the future, together with the traditional Lineage and the "Women & Differently Abled" Lineage papers.

We might change the wording, e.g., instead of "For our Treeleaf Ancestors of All Natures ... " to "For All Treeleaf Ancestors ... " unless folks like the "All Natures" wording etc.

Furthermore, we can keep the Ceremony for Women Ancestors, and the Ceremony for Differently Abled Ancestors, and just ADD a small ceremony or moment to our Rohatsu Retreat to remember and commemorate the folks of other natures who struggled to gain access to Sangha through the centuries.

Would that be good?

Also, one request, would folks offering comments here denote if they consider themselves part of the LGBTQ community because, while we value everyone's opinions, we particularly want to hear from our LGBTQ members (and perhaps any other group that has suffered exclusions in the past) about what they may feel is best. Thank you. If you are not LGBTQ, would you indicate briefly so that we might know where you are coming from? I hope that is okay to ask.

(Sorry, ran long)

Gassho, J

STLah

Hi Jundo,

Firstly I want to thank you and the rest of the Priests / Unsui for working so proactively make sure that our processes are inclusive. I never imagined when I made my comments in the precepts study forum that anyone would actually take any notice [emoji38] So honestly thank you because in the rest of the world I normally feel like I am shouting into the wind!

I like your suggestion of keeping the existing lineage documents and adding another one to represent those who have struggled to be included in the past. The wording "of all natures" is pretty but I don't think it quite hits the mark - I think "of all natures" is fine if we are truly talking about everyone, but if we are talking about people from marginalised communities then I think they need to be named as such. So perhaps "Ancestors from marginalised communities" would work well as an umbrella term which captures all other types of difference which have been oppressed.

I am part of the LGBTQ community (queer and nonbinary), I am Mexican-American, English is my second language, raised by a single mother, working class, non-university educated, immigrant to the UK, with a history of trauma and serious mental health diagnoses, etc! That is probably enough intersectionalities for now [emoji6]

Sorry for running well over 3 sentences!

Gassho,
Dee
Sat

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[Bion]

I think the more we start to categorize and label and separate things to try to acknowledge them, the more division and cause for complaint we create as it’ll be impossible to start naming everyone and everything. A simple phrase, like that used, for example, in the Soto Scriptures for Daily Practice seems to be all inclusive: “to the successive generations of buddhas and ancestors who transmitted the flame”.
I am, however, fine with whatever wording is chosen, as I don’t think the dedication of merit is meant to cater to my ego, but to simply acknowledge those who came before us, regardless of the “container” they came in.

[emoji1374] SatToday

[Meian]

When a person or a population does not fit into mainstream or dominant society, then we are easily marginalized, pushed aside, silenced, ignored -- we end up not having a voice at all. That is persecution, oppression, silencing -- all of which can kill people from the inside out. It is psychological and emotional trauma and abuse.

Acknowledgement and recognition is a powerful thing -- it brings all things out into the light and allows for healing and growth. These lineages and being recognized as existing and having contributed to Buddhist history and teachings is powerful and noteworthy.

That is what this process does -- it's important, it's vital, and that's why what Treeleaf has done and is doing now (continually evolving, growing, recognizing -- pushing the boundaries of equality and inclusion) is so necessary in our modern world that still likes to ignore the vulnerable and the different.

Just how I see it, of course.

gassho, meian st lhc

[Eikyo]

When a person or a population does not fit into mainstream or dominant society, then we are easily marginalized, pushed aside, silenced, ignored -- we end up not having a voice at all. That is persecution, oppression, silencing -- all of which can kill people from the inside out. It is psychological and emotional trauma and abuse.

Acknowledgement and recognition is a powerful thing -- it brings all things out into the light and allows for healing and growth. These lineages and being recognized as existing and having contributed to Buddhist history and teachings is powerful and noteworthy.

That is what this process does -- it's important, it's vital, and that's why what Treeleaf has done and is doing now (continually evolving, growing, recognizing -- pushing the boundaries of equality and inclusion) is so necessary in our modern world that still likes to ignore the vulnerable and the different.

Just how I see it, of course.

gassho, meian st lhc

100% this Meian.

Gassho,
Dee
ST

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[Eikyo]

I think the more we start to categorize and label and separate things to try to acknowledge them, the more division and cause for complaint we create as it’ll be impossible to start naming everyone and everything. A simple phrase, like that used, for example, in the Soto Scriptures for Daily Practice seems to be all inclusive: “to the successive generations of buddhas and ancestors who transmitted the flame”.
I am, however, fine with whatever wording is chosen, as I don’t think the dedication of merit is meant to cater to my ego, but to simply acknowledge those who came before us, regardless of the “container” they came in.

[emoji1374] SatToday

Hi Jake you may not intend it to be so but what you have said could be felt to be dismissive of those who are part of the LGBTQ community and continue to struggle for recognition/equal rights etc.... Form is emptiness and emptiness is form, yet form exists. In an ideal world we wouldn't need to separate people into categories, but in a world where people are treated unequally, then we must acknowledge and work to change it - ignoring it doesn't make the struggles go away.

I would also please second Jundo's request for people to state if they are part of the LGBTQ community, so that we can tell if the proposed wording is meeting the needs of this community?

Gassho,
Dee
Sat

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[Bion]

Hi Jake you may not intend it to be so but what you have said could be felt to be dismissive of those who are part of the LGBTQ community and continue to struggle for recognition/equal rights etc.... Form is emptiness and emptiness is form, yet form exists. In an ideal world we wouldn't need to separate people into categories, but in a world where people are treated unequally, then we must acknowledge and work to change it - ignoring it doesn't make the struggles go away.

I would also please second Jundo's request for people to state if they are part of the LGBTQ community, so that we can tell if the proposed wording is meeting the needs of this community?

Gassho,
Dee
Sat

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My reply was meant strictly in the context of the wording of the dedication of merit. It wasn’t meant to be applied to society or anything else. I think that if we say “all ancestors”, it includes ALL of them regardless of their sex, physical traits , age, race, status etc and each of us reciting it can then visualize or think of all the different people that came before us.
Of course I was not trying to be dismissive of anyone. I think Treeleaf excels at being inclusive.

[emoji1374] SatToday

[Shoki]

"All honored ones" really does cover everybody so I think that works. My first thought was, as Jakeb said, categorizing seems to go a little against the grain of what we are about. With all due respect to Meian's & Dee's responses, which I understand, I don't think Treeleaf could reasonably be accused of being insensitive or non-inclusive on this issue by saying "All honored ones."

Gassho
STlah
Shoki

[Kyōsen]

Also, one request, would folks offering comments here denote if they consider themselves part of the LGBTQ community because, while we value everyone's opinions, we particularly want to hear from our LGBTQ members (and perhaps any other group that has suffered exclusions in the past) about what they may feel is best. Thank you. If you are not LGBTQ, would you indicate briefly so that we might know where you are coming from? I hope that is okay to ask.

I've amended my post to indicate that I am LGBTQ+ and I think that's a perfectly fine thing to ask as I'm not at all in hiding about who I am

Gassho
Kyōsen
Sat|LAH

[Meitou]

My reply was meant strictly in the context of the wording of the dedication of merit. It wasn’t meant to be applied to society or anything else. I think that if we say “all ancestors”, it includes ALL of them regardless of their sex, physical traits , age, race, status etc and each of us reciting it can then visualize or think of all the different people that came before us.
Of course I was not trying to be dismissive of anyone. I think Treeleaf excels at being inclusive.

[emoji1374] SatToday

Jake, anyone who has taken the time to read your wise and constructive posts will know where you were coming from; yours was a very fair and balanced comment. It resonates with exactly the same dilemma I had when I suggested we adopted the Women Ancestors lineage chart, how as a feminist to address the lack of recognition of women historically in Buddhism, pitched against how, as a follower of the Dharma, to see beyond ego, division, category, culture and society and remain focused on interdependence at all levels.
All honored ones seems the fairest and most inclusive way forward but being unable and unwilling to categorize myself, you may discount my opinion.
Meitou
Sat

[Bion]

Jake, anyone who has taken the time to read your wise and constructive posts will know where you were coming from; yours was a very fair and balanced comment. It resonates with exactly the same dilemma I had when I suggested we adopted the Women Ancestors lineage chart, how as a feminist to address the lack of recognition of women historically in Buddhism, pitched against how, as a follower of the Dharma, to see beyond ego, division, category, culture and society and remain focused on interdependence at all levels.
All honored ones seems the fairest and most inclusive way forward but being unable and unwilling to categorize myself, you may discount my opinion.
Meitou
Sat

[emoji1374] All opinions matter!

[emoji1374] SatToday

[Soka]

As mentioned in the precepts thread, "all honoured ones" works for me.

Regarding the special Recitations of the Women Ancestors and the Recitation of the Differently Abled Ancestors, I think it is important to keep something along these lines, although what shape that should be perhaps needs to be determined by those groups concerned. I think this in part because there are still so many barriers that exist for many people and having those chants help ensure we recognise those barriers.

While I'm generally against putting things in boxes, I think here separation remains useful. I could see problems arising from trying to create one "catch all" group. Whilst not the intent, it could be interpreted offensively as a suggestion that being a woman is to be differently abled, or to be differently abled makes someone less of a man, and so on.

Not part of the LGBTQ+ community, but think it is important that everyone feels they can contribute and be comfortable in being able to voice their opinions here. Open discussion aids understanding.

Gassho,
Phill
sat