Zen, Bodhisattva vow and veganism/vegetarianism

[Meian]

It is also important to note that people have different degrees of choice around the food they buy ..... and may have to choose produce which comes from less sustainable and ethically raised methods.

At Treeleaf we ask everyone to consider their own diet and food choices in respect of the first precept, but not to judge anyone else on the conclusions they have come to. It is an entirely personal matter and no one gets to be "more Buddhist than thou".

Gassho2, meian st lh

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[Doshin]

After a life/career spent in mitigating the adverse impacts of farming on wildlife I concur with all that Kokuu shared.

Doshin
St

[Tomás ESP]

Due to my personal health issues (which are quite complex and involve both chronic illness and multiple dietary intolerances) and following strict orders from my doctors, I can't live as a vegetarian or a vegan. I am forced to eat meat. Therefore I do not think too much about it. I would probably be a vegetarian if I had a choice.

Gassho,
Sat&LaH

[Meian]

Due to my personal health issues (which are quite complex and involve both chronic illness and multiple dietary intolerances) and following strict orders from my doctors, I can't live as a vegetarian or a vegan. I am forced to eat meat. Therefore I do not think too much about it. I would probably be a vegetarian if I had a choice.

Gassho2, meian st lh

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[Onka]

I've only been vegan for 15 years and became one for ethical reasons and because it married up nicely with my anarchist politics. This personal choice to try and live cruelty free (a term I prefer than vegan) came about when I met my partner and learned about industrial farming. Most of the world is vegetarian not by choice but due to poverty (I acknowledge the fact that avoiding flesh is impossible for some remote living indigenous people) and while I accept members of the Sangha's choice to eat the flesh of sentient beings I personally think it's a cop out in most cases. Heading into my fourth and final sentence (sorry Jundo) Ania I share that my partner stopped eating sentient beings when she was 8 and refused to submit to her meat worker father's insistance that she not leave the table until she'd eaten the dead animal on her plate.
Gassho
Onka
ST

[Gareth]

I am a vegetarian, but I can imagine that a combine harvester is not much fun sometimes for mice or insects. Not all eggs or dairy products are created equally, either.

It is a difficult issue imo...

Gassho,
Gareth
Sat today

[Naiko]

I have been vegetarian, and then vegan, for a number of years. I never realized how deeply conflicted I was about eating meat until that tight knot of conflict was gone. I do think of this as part of my spiritual practice.
Gassho,
Krista
st/lah

[Elijah]

I don't have much to add than what's already been said. Just as we (humans) want to be happy and free from pain, so too do all animals, so we do our best to actualize that truth by eating less meat (or if you are able, completely eliminate). If anyone is interested in learning about the meat industry/animal treatment, Dominon is a great documentary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRAfJyEsko

[Risho]

It is an entirely personal matter and no one gets to be "more Buddhist than thou".

I have been reflecting on this, and I think this point is so important for me; my Judeo-Christian influences run deep; I don't mean that as a negative; rather, I do view the precepts as commandments even though they are not; I know they are not, but old habits die hard - especially the habit of ego protection. I come into Jukai practice/study with this chip on my shoulder that I have to prove how right and enlightened I am; hell, I come into this forum at times with an arrogance; I'm not listening or helping as much as I am trying to write something witty. As Onka would say, this isn't a pity party; it's just something that I've realized that I need to really work on. This is (not to go back to the belabored point) why I really like the 3 sentence limit; it relieves my ego from constantly having to prove myself; having to write and write and justify and show my "brilliance" (which I mean sarcastically). I mean it; I struggle with it, and that's why it's really good practice for me. I was dreading precepts study because I get angry when my views are threatened and I have to jump in, triggered, ego-bruised ready to show the world I'm right and you are wrong. I don't know when that happened; maybe it's always been there - I just know it really was a barrier for practice for the past few years. Zen, and the precepts are a foundational part of it of course, is liberating to me when I remember that I don't know everything; this isn't about my views - this is about dropping views and opening up. Which is why I need to sit more than write or speak; I know that's an important part too but really it's that constant dropping. Who is so threatened by not being "right" anyway?

Anyway thank you again Kokuu- I really, really like this, and I'm actually looking forward to Jukai study again.

Gassho,

Rish
-stlah

[Tairin]

Risho



Tairin
Sat today and lah

[Doshin]

Risho I relate.

Good introspection which taught me.

I have a lot to say on this topic but am just listening besides 3 sentences is not enough for me

Doshin
St

[Bokugan]

I have been vegetarian (vegan for a little while) for well over five years (probably closer to ten, lost count) due to ethical concerns with factory farming.

I believe it was Kokuu who mentioned reflecting on food choices and the amount of suffering they cause, which is my approach.

Totally a personal choice; my decision happens to align with the first precept, but I don't see it as a requirement and I would still be vegetarian if not Buddhist.

Gassho,

Ryan
Sat Today

[Meitou]

I have been reflecting on this, and I think this point is so important for me; my Judeo-Christian influences run deep; I don't mean that as a negative; rather, I do view the precepts as commandments even though they are not; I know they are not, but old habits die hard - especially the habit of ego protection. I come into Jukai practice/study with this chip on my shoulder that I have to prove how right and enlightened I am; hell, I come into this forum at times with an arrogance; I'm not listening or helping as much as I am trying to write something witty. As Onka would say, this isn't a pity party; it's just something that I've realized that I need to really work on. This is (not to go back to the belabored point) why I really like the 3 sentence limit; it relieves my ego from constantly having to prove myself; having to write and write and justify and show my "brilliance" (which I mean sarcastically). I mean it; I struggle with it, and that's why it's really good practice for me. I was dreading precepts study because I get angry when my views are threatened and I have to jump in, triggered, ego-bruised ready to show the world I'm right and you are wrong. I don't know when that happened; maybe it's always been there - I just know it really was a barrier for practice for the past few years. Zen, and the precepts are a foundational part of it of course, is liberating to me when I remember that I don't know everything; this isn't about my views - this is about dropping views and opening up. Which is why I need to sit more than write or speak; I know that's an important part too but really it's that constant dropping. Who is so threatened by not being "right" anyway?

Anyway thank you again Kokuu- I really, really like this, and I'm actually looking forward to Jukai study again.

Gassho,

Rish
-stlah

Rish
Meitou
Sattoday

[Nengei]

I have been reflecting on this, and I think this point is so important for me...

Yeah, me too. Thanks for this.

When I search myself, my wallowing in this tendency stems from my own lacking, of knowledge, of experience, of being who I seek to be.

Gassho,
Nengei
Sat. LAH.

[Eikyo]

Tangential perhaps but I don't think we need the Buddha or the precepts to help us understand if eating meat or animal products is wrong; if Buddha ate meat that still does absolutely nothing to justify the practice.

How can it be a matter of personal choice, when the agency of one of the parties is taken away?

I am sure that vegetables feel pain too but that point is always thrown out by meat eaters grasping at straws - truth is, if we want to minimise the amount of vegetables that we "hurt" then we would do well to eliminate animal products because animals eat far far more produce (soya, grain, etc.) than we do, so cumulatively you have the suffering of the animals you are eating, plus all of the things they ate throughout their lives.

There are some reasons (not related to Buddhism, precepts, etc) for not being vegan/vegetarian- for example, my husband is Type 1 diabetic and carbs are Not Good for him - and I love him so much I'd probably strangle a cow with my bare hands for him to eat if it meant he would be OK. Extenuating circumstances aside, many people do mental hula hoops to justify meat/animal product consumption, with and without Buddhism.

Sorry for going over three sentences, but this is a topic close to my heart, and I believe close to the heart of all the animals and our planet who is suffering.

Gassho,
Dee
#sattoday

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