Where the heck is the "like" button??
I agree with every part of that article.
Tairin
Sat today and lah
I agree with every part of that article.
Tairin
Sat today and lah
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泰林 - Tai Rin - Peaceful Woods -
I watched a video of Brad's where he went on a bit of a rant. While I agree with him on his main points, he claimed that those who are promoting or condoning psychedelic drug usage in a Buddhist context are selfish and out for personal gain. I think that's quite a leap of assumption.
Just an interesting side-note about the Buddha and magic or poisonous mushrooms before he died. Many Christian Gnostics also believed that Jesus took a poisonous substance before his death: wine mixed with "gall," which in Greek poetry, usually denotes poison.
Shinshou (Dan)
Sat TodayLast edited by Shinshou; 09-20-2018, 08:40 PM.Comment
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Alcohol Use Disorder (AUD) in the United States:
Adults (ages 18+): According to the 2015 NSDUH, 15.1 million adults ages 18 and older3 (6.2 percent of this age group4) had AUD. This includes 9.8 million men3 (8.4 percent of men in this age group4) and 5.3 million women3 (4.2 percent of women in this age group4).
Illicit and nonmedical use of psychotherapeutic drugs in the United States:
Percent of persons aged 12 years and over with any illicit drug use in the past month: 10.1% (2015)
Percent of persons aged 12 years and over with any nonmedical use of a psychotherapeutic drug in the past month: 2.4% (2015)
Picture this:
The population consists of "normies" and "druggies."
Druggies make up 80% of the population and normies make up 20%.
Druggies are majority and majority rules. Druggies make a rule that normies have to undergo a urine drug screen every 3 days and if the urine screen is clean they get to go to prison to get rehabilitated and learn to act like the rest of the world. They must learn how to use drugs if they want to live in society and stay out of jail.
Buddha's drug screen was neither dirty or clean when tested.
It appears that the "Golden Rule" when it comes to substance use disorders is not treat others as you wished to be treated but whoever has the gold rules.
That's the vibe I get from people posting here. Little understanding and compassion.
Gassho, Jishin, STLast edited by Jishin; 09-18-2018, 09:21 PM.Comment
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Well sir,
I think your assumption about my cultural milieu are mistaken. The second time I met my zen teacher was the temples new year party. We drank from noon til nine o clock at night. In Japan you can say things like 'my hobby is drinking' and drink every day and not be considered an alcoholic. We always call a double taxi. We never drink and drive. We'd lose our job and the respect of the community.
I've been sick lately and I can't drink that much. I haven't had a drink in about a year now and I plan on mostly stopping.
My American hometown is currently in a meth epidemic. Articles in the paper talk about how it has destroyed the economy. I cant take public transit without bumping into an agitated toothless person.
I'm nonbinary trans and bi. My first boyfriend turned out to be a heroin addict. He overdosed one before he met me and it destroyed the part of his brain responsible for his hearing one side.
He had a great job but his habit was expensive so he slept on a dirty mattress he found on the side of a road in an old sleeping bag. He was incredibly intelligent and studying science at one of the countries top universities. He got kicked out of the first university after his overdose and he was at another good university when I met him. He overdosed again and personality changes developed.
We broke up and last I heard he was a waiter at a sushi restaurant or something.
My childhood best friend got into heroin. Her stripper boyfriend was okay but the new one got her into drugs. She had a good job working sheet metal at the air force base.
She tested positive for a drug test and lost her job. She kept up her habit though. The other year while I was out of the country tools started disappearing from our garage.
Her brother caught her stealing her dads tools. She didn't stop. They caught her stealing and in possession. She's in jail for a really long time now. She was a bright lady.
She had better grades than me in school and its a complete waste of a life.
The lady next door's daughter in law got hooked on opiods her mom who was a nurse was giving her. Too bad those kids and that family had to go through that.
My cousin was on meth for a long time. She acted kinda mentally ill a lot. She finally got her act cleaned up. She went to college and started learning how to be an emt. Her dad found her in apartment three days dead and bloated up in the summer heat from a brain aneurism.
My best friends uncle lost his wife to opiod addiction.
If ptsd can be treated by special k that's great. All my screwed up friends and relatives thought they'd be okay with just a little bit and all those other people are suckers and I'm strong and I'm different.
You're not strong and you're not different. Ya mess around with that stuff and you'll end up like them.
Gassho
Rosui
stComment
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But Jishin, I don't think this is what is under discussion here? Who could not have compassion or understanding for people who have substance use disorders, at least not if they've seen first hand how people can be crushed under such disorders? I certainly couldn't , having lived with an alchoholic for 23 years and seen how a beautiful, intelligent man was absolutely helpless in the face of his addiction, and how helpless I was, despite how much I loved him, to help him in any way? I'd like to think if he embraced a path like Zen, his Sangha friends would be as supportive of him as possible, even if he continued to battle his dependency on alcohol, his depression, his suicide attempts.https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-he...and-statistics
Alcohol Use Disorder (AUD) in the United States:
Adults (ages 18+): According to the 2015 NSDUH, 15.1 million adults ages 18 and older3 (6.2 percent of this age group4) had AUD. This includes 9.8 million men3 (8.4 percent of men in this age group4) and 5.3 million women3 (4.2 percent of women in this age group4).
Illicit and nonmedical use of psychotherapeutic drugs in the United States:
Percent of persons aged 12 years and over with any illicit drug use in the past month: 10.1% (2015)
Percent of persons aged 12 years and over with any nonmedical use of a psychotherapeutic drug in the past month: 2.4% (2015)
Picture this:
The population consists of "normies" and "druggies."
Druggies make up 80% of the population and normies make up 20%.
Druggies are majority and majority rules. Druggies make a rule that normies have to undergo a urine drug screen every 3 days and if the urine screen is clean they get to go to prison to get rehabilitated and learn to act like the rest of the world. They must learn how to use drugs if they want to live in society and stay out of jail.
Buddha's drug screen was neither dirty or clean when tested.
It appears that the "Golden Rule" when it comes to substance use disorders is not treat others as you wished to be treated but whoever has the gold rules.
That's the vibe I get from people posting here. Little understanding and compassion.
Gassho, Jishin, ST
The only times he was ok was when he was taking medication - mind altering drugs if you like - to keep his demons at bay. There's a great example right there of how such drugs can really help people, actually save their lives.
There is a huge amount of understanding and compassion here - but perhaps that's why some of us feel that it's just not right that teachers or mentors are supervising the use of drugs for what, at the end of the day and however we want to dress it up, is not for medical use. And I didn't get the impression that they were attempting to address people with addictions, unless I missed the point entirely, which is always possible.
There seem to be two discussions happening here and maybe that's what seems to be wrong with this picture, a good phrase although you edited it out.
It hurts me that you believe I or any other person here is lacking in compassion and understanding for people who are suffering from the effects of being dependent on drink, drugs, gambling, cigarrettes whatever. There but for the grace of whoever, go I, and probably all of us.
Gassho
Meitou
satwithyoualltoday/lah命 Mei - life
島 Tou - islandComment
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Many (not all, of course) Japanese Zen and other Buddhist clergy do drink. I have been to a Karaoke New Years party at Sojiji with the "Pope" of Soto-shu and Abbot of Sojiji where the sake cups kept being refilled. All things in moderation. In fact, I believe that there are some Zen slang expressions for alcohol in Japan, basically "Dharma Water." I drink one or two glasses of wine with dinner, Nishijima Roshi did not drink at all.
We will discuss this more when we come to the Precept on Intoxicants in our Jukai preparations in a few weeks, but my basic stance is that "all things in moderation" if healthful, but for an addict or someone driving a motor vehicle, even a drop is poison.
Some Buddhist priests have suffered greatly with alcoholism, which is a physiological disease in my understanding. Maezumi Roshi eventually died form his alcoholism, which caused him great problems in life and eventual drowning in a bathttub. Even Zen power can not beat many addictions alone without more.
Gassho, J
STLahALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLEComment
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You could not hurt a fly if you tried. [emoji3]
Addiction is our problem. Not yours, mine or the girl who died from a heroin overdose. We speak of addiction in separatist terms. The truth is that we all get high together and die together. Butterfly effect. You have personal experience with addiction being a family illness. You know. Others don't.
Inability to see this clearly leads to misplaced compassion.
There is always only one conversation from moment to moment to moment. It is artificial to ridgidly follow a topic in my view. We are chatting and not writing chapters in a book. Being a little flighty or circumstantial is good. I am not to rigid when talking. Just me.
My 2 cents.
Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_Comment
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On a side note, I recommend this Netflix documentary about 3 women who work with those who suffer from addiction.
Chishou
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkAsk not what the Sangha can do for you, but what you can do for your Sangha.Comment
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I'm so sorry to read this, Rosui - san,
"She had better grades than me in school and its a complete waste of a life."
if that's where Buddhism leads one - to judge the other persons lessons in life or the speed or the nature of it; then I'm in a wrong place here .
Gassho, eva
sattodayComment
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That's what forums are for. We all have had different circumstances in our lives which give us different insights and opinions. I am glad everyone is sharing their viewpoints.
James F
Sat
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This is a very touchy subject, much more than I expected when I first started this topic. As Rosui noted, a lot of people experience, directly and indirectly, drugs completely destroying people's lives. Whereas others have seen or experienced them turn lives around. I myself have seen both sides of the coin. I used to tutor a really cool kid who completely fried his brain by taking psychoactive mushrooms over and over again, growing more and more paranoid until he finally killed himself. A friend of mine who was severely depressed and had multiple suicide attempts to her name took the same psychoactive mushrooms once, and swears that once the trip was over her depression was gone and never came back and her life just kind of blossomed after that. She never used any illicit drugs again that I know of; doesn't even drink. I myself have benefited greatly from medicinal use of cannabis for depression and joint pain, and have also seen formerly vibrant friends smoke themselves into useless lumps. Whether positive or negative, the experiences that people have with these substances are exceptionally powerful ones that reach some of deepest and rawest emotions. I think whatever our perspective on these issues, we would do well to remember that fact before jumping to conclusions about each other, and to take a deep breath and be patient with each other as we process the powerful and painful emotions that come up around this subject.
Gassho
Nick
Satlah
Sent from my Pixel using TapatalkComment
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Well said Nick, those are my feelings as well.
James F
Sat
Sent from my SM-G920V using TapatalkComment
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Hi,
Mr. Warner in typical fashion unapologetically likes to create 2 groups of people. The Warners and the non-Warners. I believe he would do much better by making no such distinction as we are all Warners. He fills a particular niche in Buddhism and this is good. That is all. He is not a Messiah. Jundo is. [emoji3]
Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_Comment
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