The First Precept and Eating Meat

[Jundo]

I think if I've read correctly, Buddha and his disciples only ate meat if it wasn't killed specifically for them.

That is true, in my understanding. But they ate meat, although I cannot say the quantity. Please see my earlier posts in this thread ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?15380-The-First-Precept-and-Eating-Meat&p=200985&viewfull=1#post200985

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?15380-The-First-Precept-and-Eating-Meat&p=201045&viewfull=1#post201045

... also in there, don't miss the frog story written by a western Theravadan monk ...

even the Buddha ate meat. Unfortunately, meat eating is often seen by westerners as an indulgence on the part of the monks. Nothing could be further from the truth - I was a strict vegetarian for three years before I became a monk. In my first years as a monk in North-East Thailand, when I bravely faced many a meal of sticky rice and boiled frog (the whole body bones and all), or rubbery snails, red-ant curry or fried grasshoppers - I would have given ANYTHING to be a vegetarian again! On my first Christmas in N.E. Thailand an American came to visit the monastery a week or so before the 25th. It seemed too good to be true, he had a turkey farm and yes, he quickly understood how we lived and promised us a turkey for Christmas. He said that he would choose a nice fat one especially for us... and my heart sank. We cannot accept meat knowing it was killed especially for monks. We refused his offer. So I had to settle for part of the villager's meal - frogs again.

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[Ryudo]

Reading over some new comments in this thread I am struck by the strong emotions that arise both from vegetarians/vegans and meat eaters. Very much like when the subject surfaces in my daily life and conversations.
So now I wonder: how come we feel so stronly about this? Are our emotions, often with underlaying anger, justified? I must admit that I struggle with these emotions.
How do we handle strong emotions in Buddhism?
Maybe there's a talk or an article on this topic.

Gassho
Marcus
SatToday/LAH

[Risho]

I think that if you are a meat eater, fine. If you are a vegan fine. If you are a vegetarian that's fine. If you are anything, I'm going to respect your opinion. I think personally what triggers me is when I perceive a sanctimonious view or attitude in someone. And this applies to whatever they are. Sanctimony is my trigger. lol

Gassho,

Risho

[Geika]

I agree, Risho.

Gassho, sat today

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[Enjaku]

Gassho,
Enjaku
Sat LAH

[Tai Shi]

I began the week talking with a Treeleaf member on Skype, and some of our conversation involved his approach to being vegetarian. I asked about various protein sources, supplements, dairy and egg intake, vegan vs. ovo lactos, allergies, gluten, non-gluten, and we covered a wealth of vegetarian ideologies. What we left out was our Buddhist approach. Next night while my wife was preparing a savory spaghetti meat sauce, I began explaining my friends diet, all the ideas I'd learned, how we could invest in a grist mill, canning equipment, dehydrators, simple cheesecloth, uses for tofu, all manner of vegetarian meals. She stopped me (I'm disabled), and she said sternly, "I'm not going to do all that work. You'll eat what's put in front of you." Gently she served me up a delicious salad with excellent blue cheese dressing, and our traditional family recipe spaghetti and meat sauce. She and I sat down gratefully to a wonderful home-cooked meal. Next time I sat in front of the computer with my friend, a Buddhist much longer than me, I related this story to him. He responded, "Good plan, eat what's put before you, and eat it gratefully."

Tai Shi
std
Gassho

[Jundo]

Reading over some new comments in this thread I am struck by the strong emotions that arise both from vegetarians/vegans and meat eaters. Very much like when the subject surfaces in my daily life and conversations.
So now I wonder: how come we feel so stronly about this? Are our emotions, often with underlaying anger, justified? I must admit that I struggle with these emotions.
How do we handle strong emotions in Buddhism?
Maybe there's a talk or an article on this topic.

Gassho
Marcus
SatToday/LAH

I hope it is okay, I put this and related posts in their own thread ...

SPLIT THREAD: HANDLING STRONG EMOTIONS

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?15437-SPLIT-THREAD-HANDLING-STRONG-EMOTIONS

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[Jundo]

Gassho,
Enjaku
Sat LAH

In parts of Asia, they eat A-holes too. Not so common, more waste not want not folk food, and only when well scrubbed.

It smells like urine when it’s fresh which isn’t surprising since it is the intestine and that’s where crap goes through. But most supermarkets will have it cleaned, bleached and prepared. It usually comes in a tube, uncut. Before preparation, you cut across so that it’s like little rings, like calamari. Unless you have a sharp knife, I use a pair of scissors to cut it. It’s slippery but not slimy (if the supermarket cleaned it well) but it does have a pungent urine smell like kidneys (which is also delicious).

You can boil it or deep fry it. Deep fried bung is common as a chinese late night snack served with a sweet chili sauce. I tried deep frying and it turned out delicious, however, my house smelled like a stale public bathroom for weeks so never again. I boil it a la hot pot style. You boil it for a good 10 minutes. The skin/casing will shrink and won’t smell as much and when you bite down, it’s all fatty lining. Horrible horrible for your health I’m sure so it’s not something I would eat on a regular basis. Oh who am I kidding, my arteries are probably clogged because of bung. Anyway, it goes well with soy sauce and if it’s undercooked, it can be a bit chewy.

http://www.clovegarden.com/recipes/cmm_pigbung1.html

Now this may be enough to turn even our most committed meat eaters into vegetarians.

(And before you ask, yes I have ... perhaps more unknowingly).

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

PS - The name of the dish may also tell you a bit about the origin of the English slang for that part ... bung.

[Jakuden]

In parts of Asia, they eat A-holes too. Not so common, more waste not want not folk food, and only when well scrubbed. The taste is, shall we say, unique even so.

http://www.clovegarden.com/recipes/cmm_pigbung1.html

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

🤢

That's as icky as boiled frogs... although I've seen firsthand how much manure goes into milk and yet I still drink it. 🤷*♀️

Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tai Shi]

Yes Jishin, here we agree. Sometimes protein is scarce, and people will eat a lot of protein sources including dung beetles and sphincter muscles.
Tai Shi
std
Gassho

[Jishin]

Lots and lots of people love to eat sphincter muscles I am told. [emoji2]

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Risho]

you are what you eat?

gassho,

risho
-st.lah

[Eishuu]

After reading the last few posts of this thread yesterday, and the delightful turn it has taken, I have to admit I went vegetarian for the rest of the day and had some lovely omelette and tofu. Suddenly inspired to to cut down on my meat consumption.

Gassho
Lucy
sat today/LAH

[Kyonin]

Hi guys,

As you know I am in Mexico and I also have traveled to and have a lot of friends/family in many places in South America. Poverty is huge and people would eat whatever is available and they don't have the luxury to pick nutrition based on philosophy. People eat whatever they can manage to find.

Going organic, fair trade, buying at farmer's markets or Whole Foods... all that are luxuries for first world countries.

Just this week a friend in Venezuela was happy to the tears because she could afford (and was lucky to find in the black market) some bread, a few eggs and butter, which was a nice change from lard and pasta.

In the high lands of Peru people have to eat rats and gophers.

In many towns in Mexico people would eat industrial breads like Twinkies and give Coke to new born babies because they can't afford milk, but Capitalist food is everywhere and super cheap. There are also towns where food is so scarce that people hunt for pigeons and eat ants or worms.

In Bolivia a friend and her husband feel blessed when they can find tomatoes because all they can afford is alpaca or llama meat and some mountain roots and greens, since their family had to learn to grow the animals. Fair food distribution is unheard there.

In poor towns in Colombia people will eat the whole pig and they won't throw anything away. The whole population of a town would gather for ceremonial killing of the animal, prepare it and eat it all. Yes, intestines included (which by the way are by far the most nutritious part of the animal).

The examples are too many to list.

Me? Eating animal fat and protein saved my life keeping me away from heart disease and diabetes, and helped me rebuild my knees and back.

But my point is: if veganism works for you, good. But don't judge people. You don't know the different stories, cultures and reasons.

At the end, living beings will do whatever they can to keep life alive.

But then again, that's just a simple man's opinion.

Gassho,

Kyonin

[Tairin]

Thank you Kyonin for keeping it real. Sometimes those of us in the First World get a little wrapped up in ourselves and lose touch with the reality that the majority of the world's people face.

And I am reminded of all the blessings I am grateful for.

Gassho
Warren
Sat/LAH today