Zazen for Beginners Series: THREAD for QUESTIONS, COMMENTS

[Jundo]

goodmorning/day/evening,

maybe i missed it while searching my way in this school, when do i have to Start Zazen online or Zazenkai? is it after all the beginners series?


SatToday
Diana

And you do not "have to," although it is strongly encouraged. It is just wonderful to sit with other folks as a group.

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

[Bion]

goodmorning/day/evening,

maybe i missed it while searching my way in this school, when do i have to Start Zazen online or Zazenkai? is it after all the beginners series?


SatToday
Diana

Oh no! You can join at any time, Diana! Just look at the NOW page and join whatever scheduled sit you wish!! Please do! [emoji3526]

[emoji1374] Sat Today

[DGF]

goodmorning/day/evening,

maybe i missed it while searching my way in this school, when do i have to Start Zazen online or Zazenkai? is it after all the beginners series?


SatToday
Diana

[Tomás ESP]

Re-visited the beginners section, one lesson a day. Really worth re-watching if your practice is shaky (or not!)

Gassho, Tomás
Sat

[DGF]

Thank you very much Jundo Sensei


Diana
SatToDay

[Jundo]

hello Jundo Sensei,

thank you for the lesson, it is really helpfull.
i have a question I betray meself that my eyes are moving more to chest level height after a while. when i realize this i correct them. are there any focus points or is that not a problem?

Thank you,

Diana
*SatToDAy*

Hi Diana,

The eyes may travel in their ordinary way, not fixated, resting here and resting there. I compare it to normal vision when driving a car. No need to do anything strange with the eyes. Generally, we are looking about 45 degrees downward, looking down toward the floor or at an open wall, but not trying to be so precise about it.

The only difference from normal vision is that we don't think much ABOUT what we might see. Here is what I usually say on this:

I just sit, looking out through my half open eyes, no differently than if I were sitting at my kitchen table looking at the room or driving a car looking at the road. If looking at the wall, I am just looking as if looking at any scenery. Normal vision, but I just am not particularly thinking about, pondering or concentrating on what I am seeing. I describe it as "staring at everything and nothing in particular". My eyes take in the room or the floor or wall quiet naturally, but I do not latch onto anything mentally to think about what I am seeing. For example, my eyes may rest on a chair or on some spots on the wall, but I just do not get lost in thoughts such as "ugly chair, need to go chair shopping" or "those dots look just like a giraffe"

My focus just wanders from point to point to point quite naturally, resting where they rest, on this or that, then moving on when they move on.

What a room looks like before Zazen ...

What the room looks like during Zazen (but just not thinking particularly thoughts like "ugly sofa, nice chair, wish I were outside, need to clean this dirty floor ... "

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[DGF]

hello Jundo Sensei,

thank you for the lesson, it is really helpfull.
i have a question I betray meself that my eyes are moving more to chest level height after a while. when i realize this i correct them. are there any focus points or is that not a problem?

Thank you,

Diana
*SatToDAy*

[Jundo]

Jundo, your comment about how "somedays we will have bad days of zazen and somedays we will have good ones, but it is still zazen." Really hit home for me. In many areas of my life, I have been waiting for perfection in order to start. I realize that things can never be perfect . Thank you for all that you do.
Floyd
ST

In our practice we leap through human subjective judgements and dichotomies of "good vs. bad" "perfect vs, imperfect" and all measure of "flaws" ...

... and thus discover a kind of Big P Perfection that shines right through all human times of good or bad, perfection and imperfection. It is kind of a light which shines even through the flaws. The bad days remain, the problems of life remain ... but so does the light.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Beautyseeker2224]

Jundo, your comment about how "somedays we will have bad days of zazen and somedays we will have good ones, but it is still zazen." Really hit home for me. In many areas of my life, I have been waiting for perfection in order to start. I realize that things can never be perfect . Thank you for all that you do.
Floyd
ST

[Tai Shi]

I'm happy for your appreciation of music, a way of speaking quite beautiful. I have been a lover of music since grade school, sure people who play musical instruments feel deeply about music. I remember when our 5th grade class went to a concert, how I was swept up in The New World Symphony. Dogen must have had musical appreciation.
Gassho
sat/ lah

[Tomás ESP]

Thank you very much for your input Bokugan (beautiful Dharma name by the way, loved the story you shared on the forum about it).

And Jundo, what you share resonates so much with me. Embracing all of it. I can feel you love life in a deep and meaningful way, with all its nuts and bolts. This is what I aspire to, not to make Samsara into Nirvana, but to recognize that Samsara is already Nirvana (just to take up the classical formula), to really live deeply. Really grateful for your sharings

Gassho, Tomás
Sat

[Bokugan]

Yes.

I don't try to hear it or force it, and just relax and listen.

If I may compare this to being at a classical music concert, saying to oneself "I really want to hear this music, I really want to hear this music." One will not really hear the music. But, when one truly relaxes, and just does not think or try much of anything, the music just washes through one ... and one might even become the sound, and the sound is just you.

Something like that.

My only quibble with some views of meditation is with the view that "it is only real meditation, going well, when I am completely swept up in the music, forgetting myself." I don't think so. Such moments are precious, and not to be ignored ... they enrich us and are necessary to this Path. However, they are not the entire, wonderful "concert experience!" I like driving to the theatre, getting stuck in traffic on the way, buying popcorn in the lobby (do that have that at classical concerts? if not, cheese and wine ), sitting there sometimes lost in thought about other things yet the music and my thoughts blend together ... then remembering where I am, and coming back again and again to the performance. I even love when the show is over, the curtain comes down and it is time to come home.

ALL of this is "enlightenment" to the wise ear in Dogen's arrangement. It is not only the moments when we are swept up in, and become, the music.

What is more, on the way back into the world, when the orchestra has gone silent, the theatre is shut, and we are thrown again into the noise and clamor of the city or our messy lives, hopefully the beauty and harmony of the symphony is still in our bones. It is all LIFE'S SYMPHONY to the Buddha's Ear.

Something like that. I hope it makes sense.

Sorry to run long.

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

I did not see Jundo's response until after I posted! This is wonderful: "hopefully the beauty and harmony of the symphony is still in our bones"

Our shikantaza practice helps us to be in tune with the whole wonderful "concert experience", even the traffic jams.

Thank you

Gassho,
Bokugan

[Bokugan]

When one hears a sound, one does not need to make an effort to hear it, it comes naturally. Could the same principle be applied to Shikantaza? Think not-thinking, by going beyond thinking and just abiding in a continuous flow of experiencing without grasping or rejecting anything. Does that make sense?

Gassho, Tomás
Sat&LaH

This makes perfect sense to me, Tomás

Perhaps shikantaza could even be thought of as a way to practice "not experiencing" --- but that statement is in the same spirit as what you posted. Words are hard for this stuff!

If we are not defining the sound, and it "just is", your analogy seems like a really good one to me

Gassho,

Bokugan
SatToday

[Jundo]

When one hears a sound, one does not need to make an effort to hear it, it comes naturally. Could the same principle be applied to Shikantaza? Think not-thinking, by going beyond thinking and just abiding in a continuous flow of experiencing without grasping or rejecting anything. Does that make sense?

Gassho, Tomás
Sat&LaH

Yes.

I don't try to hear it or force it, and just relax and listen.

If I may compare this to being at a classical music concert, saying to oneself "I really want to hear this music, I really want to hear this music." One will not really hear the music. But, when one truly relaxes, and just does not think or try much of anything, the music just washes through one ... and one might even become the sound, and the sound is just you.

Something like that.

My only quibble with some views of meditation is with the view that "it is only real meditation, going well, when I am completely swept up in the music, forgetting myself." I don't think so. Such moments are precious, and not to be ignored ... they enrich us and are necessary to this Path. However, they are not the entire, wonderful "concert experience!" I like driving to the theatre, getting stuck in traffic on the way, buying popcorn in the lobby (do that have that at classical concerts? if not, cheese ), sitting there sometimes lost in thought about other things yet the music and my thoughts blend together ... then remembering where I am, and coming back again and again to the performance. I even love when the show is over, the curtain comes down and it is time to come home.

ALL of this is "enlightenment" to the wise ear in Dogen's arrangement. It is not only the moments when we are swept up in, and become, the music.

What is more, on the way back into the world, when the orchestra has gone silent, the theatre is shut, and we are thrown again into the noise and clamor of the city or our messy lives, hopefully the beauty and harmony of the symphony is still in our bones. It is all LIFE'S SYMPHONY to the Buddha's Ear.

Something like that. I hope it makes sense.

Sorry to run long.

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

[Tobiishi]

For what it's worth... I place left on top of right on purpose because it does feel unnatural (I'm right-handed), in order to be acutely aware of what I'm doing. It reminds me that I am placing my hands in a particular position on purpose. I do the same thing when exercising or doing yoga- left side first just to make a point to myself and be aware. Anyway.


Kodo Tobiishi stlah