Split Thread: "Freedom of Art Expression" v. "No Politics" Rule at Treeleaf

[Jundo]

Here's a picture of my parrot and one of my cats. I call it, Bird out for a Walk.




Evan,
Sat today, lah

The picture of cat and bird will be allowed, Evan, as it does not express favoritism for either feline or fowl.

However, if the pink gloves + cat are some sneaky attempt to convey the "Pink Pussy" Hat message while giving the bird to hidden "hands" which control male dominated society, it will not be permitted.



(just jokin)

Gassho, J

STLah

[gaurdianaq]

The picture of cat and bird will be allowed, Evan, as it does not express favoritism for either feline or fowl.

However, if the pink gloves + cat are some sneaky attempt to convey the "Pink Pussy" Hat message while giving the bird to hidden "hands" which control male dominated society, it will not be permitted.



Gassho, J

STLah

I'll admit out of any interpretation for the random glove on the floor, that was not something I was expecting... And I'm trying to figure out if that was satire or not... I'll be honest I just wanted to lighten the mood with some animal pics...


Evan,
Sat today, lah

[Jundo]

It was satire.

[gaurdianaq]

It was satire.

I'll be honest... you scared me XD I looked it up and saw that the Pussyhat movement was a real thing and I'm just thinking "Oh no someone tried to find deeper meaning from the mess in my room..."

I even remember considering making a joke saying "what could the pink glove mean!?!?!"


Evan,
Sat today, lah

[Jundo]

[Jinyo]

Just wanted to say thank you to Meitou and Anne for their input. The prompts have been stimulating and given focus. Perhaps we will all need to pitch in with ideas
and suggestions to keep the vibrancy in the group going. Thinking positive

Gassho

Jinyo

Sat today

[Ryumon]

I'm not going to participate in this forum any more. This has turned into a Facebook thread, with a number of people just wanting to shock, and I don't come to Treeleaf for that.

I'm also very sad that there are certain people here on Treeleaf who don't understand what right speech is.

Gassho,

Kirk

sat

[Inshin]

I'm not going to participate in this forum any more. This has turned into a Facebook thread, with a number of people just wanting to shock, and I don't come to Treeleaf for that.

I'm also very sad that there are certain people here on Treeleaf who don't understand what right speech is.

Gassho,

Kirk

sat

Exactly. I came here for Dogen, Dharma, zazen and a practice of un- identifying my true self.

Gassho
Sat

[Kokuu]

with a number of people just wanting to shock

Is it a number of people, or just one?

The Art Circle is supposed to be an expression of practice as is everywhere else on the forum and mostly is exactly that.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

[Risho]

Jishin - I think everyone agree pictures like those share a lesson we should never forget because each of us has the capability to do and become that, to transform our enemies into subhumans that we exert our revenge upon.

Gassho

Risho
-stlah

[Sekishi]

A gentle reminder for us all about what constitutes Right Speech:

1. Is it factual / true?
2. Is it helpful / beneficial?
3. Is it spoken with kindness and good-will? (with a positive intention for all involved)
4. Is it pleasant / endearing? (spoken in a way the other person can hear)
5. Is it timely? (this can be the toughest - the other four can be true, but sometimes now is just not the time to say it...)

But you don't have to take my word for it:

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.058.than.html

Gassho,
Sekishi
#sat

[Kokuu]

Just to say that any post which seems provocative for the sake of it will be deleted unless Jundo overrules me, which he is free to do.

The guidance which Sekishi gives above is very helpful () and reminder #1 does not overrule the other four.


Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

[Jishin]

Just to say that any post which seems provocative for the sake of it will be deleted unless Jundo overrules me, which he is free to do.

The guidance which Sekishi gives above is very helpful () and reminder #1 does not overrule the other four.


Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

Hi Kokuu,

I may be misinterpreting you, but the post you deleted contained pictures of the Holocaust with a question posed to you as to why you felt that I wanted to use the pictures for shock value and with no other motive.

I have carefully read Sekishi's suggestion and feel that a picture paints a thousand words and the pictures you deleted are appropriate in the context of the discussion that we are having. Please examine your motives carefully.

Here is an interesting link that talks about not wanting to look at our human history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial

Gassho, Jishin, ST

[Onka]

Who are we?

This short message many will think ironic coming from me but the truth is that I've never set out to be a disruptive element within the Treeleaf Sangha. Moreover, if anything all I've done is bring a different perspective than the dominant narrative.
I need to say that the way this Sangha has publicly represented itself since the US election has been pretty ordinary. In my humble opinion there was no single person to blame for what transpired within the publicly accessible Art forum but it has resulted in two valued members of the Sangha pulling back from moderating roles. Shame on us all. Yes ALL! This public display was nothing short of a pissing contest where the main players know better.
Jishin, you are an intelligent man who understands the human condition very well. I would humbly suggest that you could've taken your brinksmanship to the pŕivate messaging arena where you and Wikipedia could battle Jundo and Wikipedia. If I can try and do better and be better then you can too.
Jundo, you didn't need to win. You could've and should've closed the thread concerned a lot earlier. Instead it came across to me at least that you needed to prove a point. Fair enough, but how about reading the mood of the Sangha a bit better? Yes, when practicing Shikantaza we should leave politics at the door but in the lead up and immediate aftermath of what is a hugely important political time many of us have needed to feel ok about expressing our feelings with our fellow Sangha sisters, brothers and others. Again, of course you're right about leaving politics at the door and yes I need to hold onto labels lighter but post-election Jundo you didn't need to publicly duke it out on the Art forum of all places despite that being where the alleged infringement occurred. You too could've taken the high road and gone to private messaging as you've done with me many times after giving one of my posts the hook but instead kept the pissing contest going with the use of jokes, emojis and images you knew would inflame rather placate Jishin.
Yes, Treeleaf is yours. Yes, you're the judge, jury and interpreter but what has been left as a public record of Treeleaf is an unnecessary stain on us all.
This brings me to the rest of us...
A couple of folk tried to diffuse things or redirect this train wreck but we didn't do enough. Personally I was quietly begging another Priest or Unsui to intervene, particularly "the thread killer" Sekishi haha but alas I watched a train wreck take us all with it.
I'm beyond caring if this post gets me banned to be honest because that's what I've been... honest.
I respect Jundo as a teacher despite openly admitting that privately he and I have had some colourful interactions. Just because Jundo is our chosen teacher does not mean he's perfect. He's not and will admit that like the rest of us he's perfectly imperfect. We can respect our teacher while also questioning his timing or communicated teaching.
If this is the last I'm heard from here at Treeleaf I wish you all well. I will be practicing with you all from rural Queensland, Australia hoping that Treeleaf continues to be a tremendous Zen resource and an open minded place of practice growth.
Especially now, be kind to yourselves and look out for each other.
With warmest regards
Gassho
Onka/Anna
Sat today

*I acknowledge but don't apologise for going over 3 sentences.

[Hensho]

I'm not sure what this is about: I dont read every single thread so I'm not hip to whatever is going on. I can't be alone in this perspective, so perhaps even this posting could have been taken off line?

Gassho,
Hensho

Satlah

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