Do we need to practice at real Zendo?

[Guest]

I want to ask this question.

Do we need to practice at real Zendo?

We are at Internet.But Do we need to practice at real Zendo?

And I live in Japan.But difficult to search real Zendo.Because our Sangha at Japan do not have place to sit .

Maybe USA have lots of Zendo more from Japan.

I talk this theme at Antaiji with practitiner at over sea from Japan.

So I helped by here.But I went to Antaiji and other temple.

I met many people who leave Sangha and misunderstand Sangha.And they can not come back.

How do you think about this matter?






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[RichardH]

We practice in a real zendo. Online and offline both... whenever, however. I would not waste time here otherwise. No more to say on "real"



Gassho
Daizan


sat today.

[Kakunen]

なぜここには日本語がありませんか？


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[Jundo]

We practice in a real zendo. Online and offline both... whenever, however. I would not waste time here otherwise. No more to say on "real"



Gassho
Daizan


sat today.

I agree.

However, I also believe that it is good to go to a place and socialize with folks that way too, and to sit with them when one can, if possible. Of course! Anyway, why limit things to one or the other? Here, we communicate and look into each others' hearts and sit together in rich ways ... but I would never deny that being in a "brick and mortar" Zendo is not a rich way to communicate, share and sit together in rich ways like here but different too, offering the experience of being with folks "in the flesh" we cannot. It is not an "either/or" matter. Why not both, not two (assuming it is physically possible for someone to do so)?

Anyway ... the fact that Mr. K. says this is almost shocking, is it not?

And I live in Japan.But difficult to search real Zendo.Because our Sangha at Japan do not have place to sit .

Maybe USA have lots of Zendo more from Japan.

I recently sent him a list of dozens and dozens of Zazenkai, Soto and Rinzai, scattered through Japan, but the fact is that most happen maybe once a week or even once a month (!), and are scattered very far apart around the country. That is about the same situation in America and Europe too. The vast vast majority of Soto Zen and other Zen temples have no Zazenkai at all, and are focused on funerals and memorial services. In any case, the Japanese now have such a negative image of Zazen and Buddhism as just associated with funerals that it is almost impossible to get anyone to sit Zazen (thus my advertisements in the local "What's Happening" paper usually get one or two inquiries at most despite large readership. Of course, the people who have come from such notices in the paper ... like Mr. K. ... are wonderful! ).

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Rich]

Google plus is pretty real. Real or unreal the ego looks for excuses not to practice because there is no gain, no why, no purpose. It just is, so enjoy the real, the unreal, your total being.

SAT today

[Kakunen]

I will repost. But this is a important theme for us.
また再度投稿します。　これは私たちにとって重要です。

But I am dissapoint that our Tree leaf member do not have Japanese people.
I can have opinion of without Japanese at here.
私は木の葉禅堂に日本人がいないことを残念に思います。そしてここに日本人がいないことに意見 があります。

Our Sangha was started by master Dogen,so I talk about this thing.
When I was at ANTAIJI ,I talk about this theme with our fellow.

しゃーんめな！Do you know this word Jundo? Syanmena!

[Kakunen]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEjb1qb8hLE

I will shere Rinkou study group by Syuzo Reader Mui from USA at Antaiji.

please watch to the end of this movie.

I inspire by him.

[Jundo]

しゃーんめな！Do you know this word Jundo? Syanmena!

Basically an acidic "it can't be helped" (仕方ない ) in Kansai dialect?

I just posted an article for our priests on the state of Buddhism in Japan ... funerals, empty temples ...

http://toyokeizai.net/articles/-/80746

My joke is ...

It is one reason I cannot get people here to come to our Zazenkai. Buddhism is something for grandpa's funeral and memorial services. "Zen" has an image of austerity and pain because that is the media image. So, when I say "come to practice Zen", it is like trying to persuade people to come to a funeral parlor for a good time of getting hit with a stick! Really.

If I did not call our Zazenkai "Zen Buddhist" ... and maybe changed the name and atmosphere to "Happy Relax Cosmic Yoga" or some silly name. and filled the place with balloons and a bounce house, I would get many more people to come. I mean it.

Gassho, Jundo

Typical media image in Japan of Zazen ... (advert for a housing company, his "satori" is he realizes the kind of house he wants to build) ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uowasHTrTeI

Frankly, it is not just Treeleaf. Even the big Zazenkai at Sojiji Head Temple I attended for about 10 years had new people coming all the time ... but a pretty steady membership of about 40 people ... because most would not stay. It is like jogging or a gym membership that way. Many folks commit at New Years Eve, but a few weeks later ...

Hey, Mr. K., maybe you want to help Treeleaf have more Japanese members? You can be our bridge and Japanese intercultural adviser! Really!

Gassho,

[Mp]

Hey, Mr. K., maybe you want to help Treeleaf have more Japanese members? You can be our bridge and Japanese intercultural adviser! Really!

I too think this is a great idea. =)

Gassho
Shingen

#sattoday

[Washin]

Thank you for this thread Mr.K.

We practice in a real zendo. Online and offline both... whenever, however.

Anyway ... the fact that Mr. K. says this is almost shocking, is it not?

It is! It was a big surprise for me because my understanding was, when in Japan, you may just
"turn around the corner" and encounter a zendo where you can sit zazenkai and join a regular
practice.

In my country there is only one Zendo "in flesh" practicing in the Soto Tradition / Deshimaru lineage
with a teacher coming from Poland 3-4 times a year to organize sesshins. They do offer weekly
sittings by a local clergy however, but it is 500 km distance from my city.
No traces of other traditions/schools so far. Therefore Treeleaf is priceless (but not for this reason only).

On the other hand I suppose it would be good for me to begin joining those zazenkais once-two times a year.
I think we need both, 'on-line' and 'real'.
"Do not lose either the eye of oneness or the eye that discerns differences" -Dogen

Gassho,
Sergey
sat-today

[Rich]

There are 325 million in the US. I'm guessing maybe 10000 practice Zen. Many more people try it and quit. So it's not just Japan.

Will sit now

[Jishin]

We are at Internet.But Do we need to practice at real Zendo?

It depends. If you don't think Treeleaf is real then you must not practice here. If you think Treeleaf is real then you can practice here if you want to.

“All that we are is the result of what we have thought." - Siddhartha Gautama

"If you say a painting is not real, then the material phenomenal world is not real. Unsurpassed enlightenment is a painting. The entire phenomenal universe and the empty sky are nothing but a painting. Since this is so, there is no remedy for satisfying hunger other than a painted rice cake. Without painted hunger you never become a true person."- Zen Master Dogen

Is the painting of a Zendo real (Treeleaf)? If you say a painting (Treeleaf) is not real, then the material phenomenal world is not real. Unsurpassed enlightenment is a painting (Treeleaf). The entire phenomenal universe and the empty sky are nothing but a painting (Treeleaf). Since this is so, there is no remedy for satisfying hunger (practice) other than a painted rice cake (Treeleaf).

I am hungry. Who wants to grab some rice cakes at Treeleaf with me?

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Jundo]

Hi Jishin,

Yes ...

The world is virtual, this sangha is real

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?8103-The-world-is-virtual-this-sangha-is-real

No Sangha is perfect, each is perfectly imperfect. Some have strong points of various kinds, our is availability any time and place, plus excellent community of individuals with varied level of experience. If people can get to a community in "meat-meet space" sometimes too, that is how things have been for millenia ... good to sit with folks in the flesh.

When resources are made available, it is up to people to make good use of them well.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Nindo]

Yesterday when I read the thread about smell (particularly incense) and other "sense inputs" during practice, I could not help but think about my last Zazenkai where I had a very fart-happy seat neighbour. At another occasion, somebody was acting very clumsy and I got impatient and even angry, and I had to deal with my agitation in the silence of the practice. Such direct interaction and sense input (!) from other people provide quite a different experience of practice than sitting in one's own cosy place at home.

So I agree with Jundo; this sangha is real, but if at all possible, also get a taste of practice with others in the flesh.

Gassho
Nindo
sattoday

[alan.r]

Yesterday when I read the thread about smell (particularly incense) and other "sense inputs" during practice, I could not help but think about my last Zazenkai where I had a very fart-happy seat neighbour. At another occasion, somebody was acting very clumsy and I got impatient and even angry, and I had to deal with my agitation in the silence of the practice. Such direct interaction and sense input (!) from other people provide quite a different experience of practice than sitting in one's own cosy place at home.

So I agree with Jundo; this sangha is real, but if at all possible, also get a taste of practice with others in the flesh.

Gassho
Nindo
sattoday

I like this, Nindo, and agree. The closest Zendo is nearly two hours away for me, so I used to sit weekly with a Theravada group, even though I wore a rakusu and kept my eyes open and brought my cushion. It is definitely a different kind of sitting to sit with others who might be moving or farting or coughing or even falling asleep. I think it's good to do that, to go to a place and sit with others sometimes, even if not a Zen place. Sitting online with Treeleaf is also lovely, but just different. And yet, both are the same. While I may be sitting with a recorded zazenkai, there is also a big dog barking out back, my own dog running after one of our cats, maybe my wife doing laundry, etc, and when I sit, these things, while still doing what they're doing, sit with me, and I sit with them, just as in a zendo.

One of things I think Jundo has said before is that he thinks it important that all Treeleaf members try to attend a retreat once a year. I like this quite a bit, though it is difficult. There are only so many sesshins available nearby, most are a weeklong, and my boss would probably laugh in my face if I told him I was going to take a week off (to do anything). I'd be looking for another job. Still, hoping to find a three-day retreat in a brick and mortar place b/c I feel in the bones it's important to do.

Nice thread. Now could someone please translate the video please. Heheh, just kidding.

Gassho,
Alan
sat today