If Dogen worked for me......

[Jeremy]

Thinking aloud here...

This part makes sense to me as something one might do in Zazen:

... Pretend that you are sitting there feeling in the bones "this is complete" and, well, it may actually begin to seem so...

but this part doesn't sound right to me:

If Zazen is an "enactment ritual", pretend you are Buddha and Ancestors sitting.

This sounds like making a concept of Buddha and Ancestors and that's something you should throw out, not pretend to be.

step lightly... stay free...
Jeremy
st

[Jinyo]

The Mindfulness I have been witness to as a CBT therapist is so far removed from Buddhist practice, it needs to be renamed. I have sat in classes and been given a sultana to concentrate on....feel, taste etc...! I mean I think I get it....but then I also get Monty Python!

There may be some overtones of cognitive restructuring in there but I think the Tantric agenda is a different thong altogether.

Tony...

Sat today

I dare say there are therapists who teach mindfulness meditation in a good way and others who are perhaps formulaic and not so good.

I don't think the Mindfulness movement pretends that it is Buddhist practice so I don't see why it needs to be renamed, as Buddhism doesn't have sole claim to a 'word' that can be used in different ways to mean different things. Practitioners like John Kabat-Zinn are
honest in their appraisal of the links with and influence of Buddhism (which in itself is another descriptor for many different forms/flavours of practice/belief) but nowhere have I seen it written that they are claiming to teach Buddhism.

There is a wonderful book written by Saki Santorelli (Heal Thy Self - Lessons on Mindfulness in Medicine). The raisin exercise is in there
somewhere The point is - 'what' Santorelli encouraged in his patients - how he was with them - how he encouraged them to breath through stress and physical pain - how he encouraged attention to the moment and going with the flow - not causing further stress by
fighting sensations - this is mindfulness as conceived in Buddhism.

I agree with what Jishin wrote too.

Gassho

Willow

sat today

[Jundo]

but this part doesn't sound right to me:

Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
If Zazen is an "enactment ritual", pretend you are Buddha and Ancestors sitting.

This sounds like making a concept of Buddha and Ancestors and that's something you should throw out, not pretend to be.

Yes, don't make them a concept or separate object. So, please embody the role and pretend (or "unpretend" since supposedly we are moving from "delusion" to Reality, and this so called "real world" is the pretense in which we are role playing) that there is not the least separation or objectification. Pretend that you have radically stopped looking for him because here all along. Act as if one feels it in the marrow of the bones, as if the bone is no longer looking somewhere distant for the bone, and simply finding the bony boneness.

Then, get up from the cushion, chop wood and haul water, and go help Trish with her weaving.

Thanks Jundo, sounds almost Tantric in terms of bringing the goal into the present. Like Generation Stage, seeing yourself as a deity until it actually happens. Just a comparison.

Dogenologist Taigen Leighton made that point in the essay I linked to above about "enactment ritual" ...

For Dogen and others, Zen shares with the Vajrayana tradition the heart of spiritual activity and praxis as the enactment of buddha awareness and physical presence, rather than aiming at developing a perfected, formulated understanding. ...

http://www.ancientdragon.org/dharma/articles/zazen_as_enactment_ritual

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Jeremy]

I have sat in (Mindfulness) classes and been given a sultana to concentrate on....feel, taste etc...

I came across the raisin eating exercise about 25 years ago at a Friends of the Western Buddhist Order (now Triratna) course in Mindfulness of Breathing, so for me it's associated with Buddhism

Where this thread has gone reminds me of a passage from Shunryu Suzuki's "Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind" which brings together eating and ideas about attaining Buddhahood nicely:

... You should just polish the tile; that is our practice. The purpose of practice is not to make a tile a jewel. Just continue sitting; that is practice in its true sense. It is not a matter of whether or not it is possible to attain Buddhahood, whether or not it is possible to make a tile a jewel. Just to work and live in this world with this understanding is the most important point. That is our practice. That is true zazen. So we say, "When you eat, eat!" You should eat what is there, you know. Sometimes you do not eat it. Even though you are eating, your mind is somewhere else. You do not taste what you have in your mouth. As long as you can eat when you are eating, you are all right. Do not worry a bit. It means you are you yourself.

step lightly... stay free...
Jeremy
st

[Sozan]

This part makes sense to me as something one might do in Zazen:

Originally Posted by Jundo

... Pretend that you are sitting there feeling in the bones "this is complete" and, well, it may actually begin to seem so...

I recently experienced a brief moment of clarity/insight (kensho? whatever). I find that when i bring the spirit of this experience to my sitting, it is a great aid to my focus. I don't have the experience again, but the mere shadow of that insight brings joy to my zazen.

Gassho,
John

s@2day

[Jishin]

Hi,

If you got enlightenment, clarity or Kensho, then what? What could you possibly do with it?

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Mp]

Hi,

If you got enlightenment, clarity or Kensho, then what? What could you possibly do with it?

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

Reboot, and start again! Is kensho not in each moment? How many moments are in a day? A week? A lifetime? =)

Gassho
Shingen

#sattoday

[Jundo]

I recently experienced a brief moment of clarity/insight (kensho? whatever). I find that when i bring the spirit of this experience to my sitting, it is a great aid to my focus. I don't have the experience again, but the mere shadow of that insight brings joy to my zazen.

Ah, but don't chase after recreating that moment either like some old flame you are trying to rekindle. Rather than revive an old love affair, be totally with the one in before you. Sit with the Wholeness and Clarity of just what is in this moment's Zazen.

As Shingen says ...

Reboot, and start again! Is kensho not in each moment? How many moments are in a day? A week? A lifetime? =)

As I wrote about "the Whole Bus Trip Kensho" above, do not try to get back to the Grand Canyon. The Vast Canyon is Wondrous, yet each bumpy pothole on the bus trip holds the Whole Grand Canyon when just seen.

When not with the one you love, love the one you with ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NypCROu8YVQ

Gassho, Jundo the Driver

SatToday on the Bus

[Oheso]

If you got enlightenment, clarity or Kensho, then what? What could you possibly do with it?

see here, now?

see here now!

gassho, O who this day sat

[Jishin]

I was hoping to get me some Kensho, take a picture of it and make copies for sale.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Oheso]

you can let go of that idea!



g, O,wst

[Kyonin]

I was hoping to get me some Kensho, take a picture of it and make copies for sale.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

Can I have one, please? I think once I got myself a little kensho. Then I went on to wash the dishes and to work.

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

[Jishin]

If Dogen worked for me......

Can I have one, please? I think once I got myself a little kensho. Then I went on to wash the dishes and to work.

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

Don't say I never did anything for you. Here is your certificate:

www.genuine.kensho.certificate.com:

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Jishin]

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Yugen]

If Dogen worked for me......

Has to be written with fat crayons [emoji6]
Deep bows
Yugen


sat2day