Ego in practice.

[Jeremy]

Here is how various translators have handled this ...

Here's a handy link:

http://www.thezensite.com/ZenTeachings/Dogen_Teachings/GenjoKoan8.htm

step lightly... stay free...
Jeremy
sr

[Jika]

This is awesome!
Thank you, Victor, for the original question, and all answers.
Thanks, Luciana, for your question - I love diving into this list of translations.

"Den Buddhaweg ergründen heißt sich selbst ergründen (Dem Buddhaweg folgen heißt sich selbst folgen/Den Buddhaweg gehen heißt selbst gehen). Sich selbst ergründen (sich selbst folgen/selbst gehen) heißt sich selbst vergessen. Sich selbst vergessen heißt von den zehntausend Dingen bezeugt werden. Von den zehntausend Dingen bezeugt werden heißt Körper und Geist von sich selbst und den anderen fallen lassen. Die Spuren des Erwachens lösen sich auf, und die aufgelösten Spuren des Erwachens führen endlos fort."

http://antaiji.org/classics/genjokoan/?lang=de

It sounds like a strong, heavy seal of approval, but I feel it is a very light one.
Everything carrying everything.

Gassho,
Danny
#sattoday

[Victor Chu]

Thank you everyone for such wonderful teaching and sharing of experience/wisdom. Gassho. I am in deep gratitude.

I was joking with someone recently that many of the Buddhist Teachers I know have very very big "Non-Egos".

I do not believe that, so long as we are in human form, we can be completely free of ego, in the sense of not having whatsoever a personal sense of "self", and its desires and tendencies for better and worse. It may be possible to completely abandon the worst of human psychology ... such as pride, envy, anger, jealousy ... so that not even a drop remains, but one would need to be a very advanced practitioner, i.e., a Buddha in fact.

However, Buddhist Practice allows us to do two things with our humanity:

First, it allows us to soften, sublimate, balance and control our worst psychological nature, not falling prisoner to extremes, turning negatives in a positive direction. For example, if some of these attributes can be compared to "fire", our practice teaches us to keep the fires in check ... use them for positive purposes like heat and cooking, not to burn down the whole house in runaway emotions. I wrote something on that concerning anger once ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?8266-Playing-With-Fire

Some pride, jealousy, anger and the like may remain, but we more quickly let it go, do not get tied up in it as easily, are not its prisoner.

The second approach that Buddhist Practice allows is what I would call "seeing through the self-other divide" such that pride, envy, jealousy, anger and all the rest have no way to arise ... because there is no separate "I" to be jealous of or angry at "you" for example. Yes, Zen Practice allows us to attain such a peaceful, whole view.

Unfortunately, I do not believe it possible for human beings to completely stay in that "undivided" view all the time, because we soon must get back to living in this complex world of "me" and "you" and such. However, what happens is that the "undivided" view comes to permeate and perfume our day-to-day "divided" view. What is the result? Well, one might experience "anger" but simultaneously a realm in which there is "nothing to be angry about", one might experience "jealousy" but simultaneously a realm in which there is "nothing to compare, no loss or gain" etc. etc.

When that perfuming and permeation happens, the anger, jealousy etc. etc. simply cannot be as they were before.

Something like that, I hope it is understandable.

Gassho, J

SatToday

Thank you Jundo. This is a very wonderful teaching. It resonates deeply with me. Your teaching on playing with fire is such a wonderful teaching and analogy. When I first embarked on Buddhism about 10 years ago, I often wonder if the goal of Buddhism is to become a lifeless emotional-less robot. I start to realize that isn't what it is about.


Many Bows
Victor

[seeker242]

Is letting go completely of ego possible?

Thank you
Victor

The Buddha and the old masters taught it is. I don't see any reason to doubt them.

[Jundo]

The Buddha and the old masters taught it is. I don't see any reason to doubt them.

I do. One must not be too quick to buy into exaggerated or idealized stories, and legends as archetypes.

It is possible, however, to fully let go and not let go at once.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Ugrok]

Can we let go of something that is not there ?

For me dropping ego means to view that it never was here in the first place.

Nothing changes but the way we view ourselves, which means everything change ? Ahaha

Gassho,
Ugrok, sat today


Envoyé de mon CINK FIVE en utilisant Tapatalk

[Ugrok]

Can we let go of something that is not there ?

For me dropping ego means to view that it never was here in the first place. Ego is just a word that cristallizes a lot of "stuff".

Nothing changes but the way we view ourselves, which means everything change ? Ahaha

Gassho,
Ugrok, sat today


Envoyé de mon CINK FIVE en utilisant Tapatalk

Envoyé de mon CINK FIVE en utilisant Tapatalk

[seeker242]

I do. One must not be too quick to buy into exaggerated or idealized stories, and legends as archetypes.

It is possible, however, to fully let go and not let go at once.

Gassho, J

SatToday

I agree. One should not be so quick to engage in "blind faith" or whatever one wants to call it. But I do think there can be a time in one's practice, after much consideration, that one can just conclude that it's true and not doubt it anymore. I think that's OK. To me anyway, that is what "Great Faith" means. Faith that I can achieve everything the Buddha himself achieved, because it's not something outside me. It's just my true nature, which is perfect in every regard. My true nature is exactly the same as Gautama's true nature, which is the same as Linji's which is the same as Huangbo's and Baizhang's. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's been achieved, but just the capacity or potential is already there, without any doubts about that. That's how I think of it anyway.

[Jundo]

I agree. One should not be so quick to engage in "blind faith" or whatever one wants to call it. But I do think there can be a time in one's practice, after much consideration, that one can just conclude that it's true and not doubt it anymore. I think that's OK. To me anyway, that is what "Great Faith" means. Faith that I can achieve everything the Buddha himself achieved, because it's not something outside me. It's just my true nature, which is perfect in every regard. My true nature is exactly the same as Gautama's true nature, which is the same as Linji's which is the same as Huangbo's and Baizhang's. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's been achieved, but just the capacity or potential is already there, without any doubts about that. That's how I think of it anyway.

That is an excellent attitude, and keep shooting for that star ... getting better and better and more Buddhalike ... all while realizing that Buddha is here all along, so nothing to attain.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Kaishin]

Thank you, All.

-satToday

[Doshin]

Thank you, All.

-satToday

I second this. A good teaching.

Gassho

Randy

[Luciana]

Thank you, Jundo!

_/\_

L.
sat2day

[RichardH]

Just to jump in a bit late here. It may be needless to say, but ego is not a permanent thing or entity. It is a mental activity-function that begins and ends all the time in ordinary people. Psychologically, healthy ego-function is the interface between different body/minds. I'm Daizan not Kaishin for instance. Ego-function is not a problem per se. I've had the good luck to meet a lot of mature practitioners from different Buddhist traditions, and without exception that psychological ego-function is intact. Even with an immature practitioner (like me), or a non-practitioner, ego appears and disappears all the time. In zazen there is no ego. While absorbed in an activity like painting, or dish washing, there is no ego.

Egotism, the puffing up or demeaning of "me", is another story. That is diminishing slowly in my own life just from becoming deluded and proud then falling flat on my face over and over again. There is a (probably made up) story about the death of Oscar Wilde. He was on his death bed in some hotel and was forced to look at some very ugly wallpaper all day. Then finally just be before dying he looked at it one more time and said "One of us has to go". True or not it is a great story and it speaks to egotism it seems.

Gassho
Daizan

sat today...dozed

Just a student so please take with a grain of salt

[Daiyo]

That is diminishing slowly in my own life just from becoming deluded and proud then falling flat on my face over and over again. There is a (probably made up) story about the death of Oscar Wilde. He was on his death bed in some hotel and was forced to look at some very ugly wallpaper all day. Then finally just be before dying he looked at it one more time and said "One of us has to go". True or not it is a great story and it speaks to egotism it seems.

Thanks Daizan.

I could not say that it is diminishing in my life but at least I have started to notice it.
Many years ago I used to practice aikido, and read somewhere that it was the art of becoming one with the mat.

I believe life is something similar, with pride getting all the time in the way, and we falling and rising to fall again with the taste of the mat still fresh in our mouths.

Gassho,
Daiyo

#SatToday

[Jeremy]

I love this quote from Walpola Sri Rahula's "What The Buddha Taught" (p37):

According to the teaching of the Buddha, the idea of self is an imaginary, false belief which has no corresponding reality, and it produces harmful thoughts of 'me' and 'mine', selfish desire, craving, attachment, hatred, illwill, conceit, pride, egoism, and other defilements, impurities and problems. It is the source of all the troubles in the world from personal conflicts to wars between nations. In short, to this view can be traced all the evil in the world.

Such sweeping certainty is awesome (-:

step lightly... stay free...
Jeremy
st