Ego in practice.

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  • Jeremy

    #16
    Originally posted by Jundo
    Here is how various translators have handled this ...
    Here's a handy link:


    step lightly... stay free...
    Jeremy
    sr

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    • Jika
      Member
      • Jun 2014
      • 1337

      #17
      This is awesome!
      Thank you, Victor, for the original question, and all answers.
      Thanks, Luciana, for your question - I love diving into this list of translations.

      "Den Buddhaweg ergründen heißt sich selbst ergründen (Dem Buddhaweg folgen heißt sich selbst folgen/Den Buddhaweg gehen heißt selbst gehen). Sich selbst ergründen (sich selbst folgen/selbst gehen) heißt sich selbst vergessen. Sich selbst vergessen heißt von den zehntausend Dingen bezeugt werden. Von den zehntausend Dingen bezeugt werden heißt Körper und Geist von sich selbst und den anderen fallen lassen. Die Spuren des Erwachens lösen sich auf, und die aufgelösten Spuren des Erwachens führen endlos fort."


      It sounds like a strong, heavy seal of approval, but I feel it is a very light one.
      Everything carrying everything.

      Gassho,
      Danny
      #sattoday
      Last edited by Jika; 08-30-2015, 08:46 AM. Reason: changed to new Antaiji website
      治 Ji
      花 Ka

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      • Victor Chu
        Member
        • Jan 2014
        • 45

        #18
        Thank you everyone for such wonderful teaching and sharing of experience/wisdom. Gassho. I am in deep gratitude.


        Originally posted by Jundo
        I was joking with someone recently that many of the Buddhist Teachers I know have very very big "Non-Egos".

        I do not believe that, so long as we are in human form, we can be completely free of ego, in the sense of not having whatsoever a personal sense of "self", and its desires and tendencies for better and worse. It may be possible to completely abandon the worst of human psychology ... such as pride, envy, anger, jealousy ... so that not even a drop remains, but one would need to be a very advanced practitioner, i.e., a Buddha in fact.

        However, Buddhist Practice allows us to do two things with our humanity:

        First, it allows us to soften, sublimate, balance and control our worst psychological nature, not falling prisoner to extremes, turning negatives in a positive direction. For example, if some of these attributes can be compared to "fire", our practice teaches us to keep the fires in check ... use them for positive purposes like heat and cooking, not to burn down the whole house in runaway emotions. I wrote something on that concerning anger once ...

        Someone wrote me to ask if Buddhism requires us to abandon most of our passions. Must we forsake all our drive and ambitions for what we wish to achieve in life? Must we be cold people, perhaps unable to passionately and fully love someone deeply, with all our hearts? Must we avoid feeling indignation in the face of injustices


        Some pride, jealousy, anger and the like may remain, but we more quickly let it go, do not get tied up in it as easily, are not its prisoner.

        The second approach that Buddhist Practice allows is what I would call "seeing through the self-other divide" such that pride, envy, jealousy, anger and all the rest have no way to arise ... because there is no separate "I" to be jealous of or angry at "you" for example. Yes, Zen Practice allows us to attain such a peaceful, whole view.

        Unfortunately, I do not believe it possible for human beings to completely stay in that "undivided" view all the time, because we soon must get back to living in this complex world of "me" and "you" and such. However, what happens is that the "undivided" view comes to permeate and perfume our day-to-day "divided" view. What is the result? Well, one might experience "anger" but simultaneously a realm in which there is "nothing to be angry about", one might experience "jealousy" but simultaneously a realm in which there is "nothing to compare, no loss or gain" etc. etc.

        When that perfuming and permeation happens, the anger, jealousy etc. etc. simply cannot be as they were before.

        Something like that, I hope it is understandable.

        Gassho, J

        SatToday

        Thank you Jundo. This is a very wonderful teaching. It resonates deeply with me. Your teaching on playing with fire is such a wonderful teaching and analogy. When I first embarked on Buddhism about 10 years ago, I often wonder if the goal of Buddhism is to become a lifeless emotional-less robot. I start to realize that isn't what it is about.


        Many Bows
        Victor
        Last edited by Victor Chu; 08-30-2015, 08:50 AM.

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        • seeker242
          Member
          • Aug 2015
          • 20

          #19
          Originally posted by Victor Chu
          Is letting go completely of ego possible?

          Thank you
          Victor
          The Buddha and the old masters taught it is. I don't see any reason to doubt them.

          Comment

          • Jundo
            Treeleaf Founder and Priest
            • Apr 2006
            • 40772

            #20
            Originally posted by seeker242
            The Buddha and the old masters taught it is. I don't see any reason to doubt them.
            I do. One must not be too quick to buy into exaggerated or idealized stories, and legends as archetypes.

            It is possible, however, to fully let go and not let go at once.

            Gassho, J

            SatToday
            ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

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            • Ugrok
              Member
              • Sep 2014
              • 323

              #21
              Can we let go of something that is not there ?

              For me dropping ego means to view that it never was here in the first place.

              Nothing changes but the way we view ourselves, which means everything change ? Ahaha

              Gassho,
              Ugrok, sat today


              Envoyé de mon CINK FIVE en utilisant Tapatalk

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              • Ugrok
                Member
                • Sep 2014
                • 323

                #22
                Originally posted by Ugrok
                Can we let go of something that is not there ?

                For me dropping ego means to view that it never was here in the first place. Ego is just a word that cristallizes a lot of "stuff".

                Nothing changes but the way we view ourselves, which means everything change ? Ahaha

                Gassho,
                Ugrok, sat today


                Envoyé de mon CINK FIVE en utilisant Tapatalk


                Envoyé de mon CINK FIVE en utilisant Tapatalk

                Comment

                • seeker242
                  Member
                  • Aug 2015
                  • 20

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Jundo
                  I do. One must not be too quick to buy into exaggerated or idealized stories, and legends as archetypes.

                  It is possible, however, to fully let go and not let go at once.

                  Gassho, J

                  SatToday
                  I agree. One should not be so quick to engage in "blind faith" or whatever one wants to call it. But I do think there can be a time in one's practice, after much consideration, that one can just conclude that it's true and not doubt it anymore. I think that's OK. To me anyway, that is what "Great Faith" means. Faith that I can achieve everything the Buddha himself achieved, because it's not something outside me. It's just my true nature, which is perfect in every regard. My true nature is exactly the same as Gautama's true nature, which is the same as Linji's which is the same as Huangbo's and Baizhang's. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's been achieved, but just the capacity or potential is already there, without any doubts about that. That's how I think of it anyway.

                  Comment

                  • Jundo
                    Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                    • Apr 2006
                    • 40772

                    #24
                    Originally posted by seeker242
                    I agree. One should not be so quick to engage in "blind faith" or whatever one wants to call it. But I do think there can be a time in one's practice, after much consideration, that one can just conclude that it's true and not doubt it anymore. I think that's OK. To me anyway, that is what "Great Faith" means. Faith that I can achieve everything the Buddha himself achieved, because it's not something outside me. It's just my true nature, which is perfect in every regard. My true nature is exactly the same as Gautama's true nature, which is the same as Linji's which is the same as Huangbo's and Baizhang's. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's been achieved, but just the capacity or potential is already there, without any doubts about that. That's how I think of it anyway.
                    That is an excellent attitude, and keep shooting for that star ... getting better and better and more Buddhalike ... all while realizing that Buddha is here all along, so nothing to attain.

                    Gassho, J

                    SatToday
                    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                    Comment

                    • Kaishin
                      Member
                      • Dec 2010
                      • 2322

                      #25
                      Thank you, All.

                      -satToday
                      Thanks,
                      Kaishin (開心, Open Heart)
                      Please take this layman's words with a grain of salt.

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                      • Doshin
                        Member
                        • May 2015
                        • 2634

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Kaishin
                        Thank you, All.

                        -satToday
                        I second this. A good teaching.

                        Gassho

                        Randy

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                        • Luciana
                          Member
                          • May 2015
                          • 59

                          #27
                          Thank you, Jundo!

                          _/\_

                          L.
                          sat2day

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                          • RichardH
                            Member
                            • Nov 2011
                            • 2800

                            #28
                            Just to jump in a bit late here. It may be needless to say, but ego is not a permanent thing or entity. It is a mental activity-function that begins and ends all the time in ordinary people. Psychologically, healthy ego-function is the interface between different body/minds. I'm Daizan not Kaishin for instance. Ego-function is not a problem per se. I've had the good luck to meet a lot of mature practitioners from different Buddhist traditions, and without exception that psychological ego-function is intact. Even with an immature practitioner (like me), or a non-practitioner, ego appears and disappears all the time. In zazen there is no ego. While absorbed in an activity like painting, or dish washing, there is no ego.

                            Egotism, the puffing up or demeaning of "me", is another story. That is diminishing slowly in my own life just from becoming deluded and proud then falling flat on my face over and over again. There is a (probably made up) story about the death of Oscar Wilde. He was on his death bed in some hotel and was forced to look at some very ugly wallpaper all day. Then finally just be before dying he looked at it one more time and said "One of us has to go". True or not it is a great story and it speaks to egotism it seems.

                            Gassho
                            Daizan

                            sat today...dozed

                            Just a student so please take with a grain of salt
                            Last edited by RichardH; 08-31-2015, 01:09 PM.

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                            • Daiyo
                              Member
                              • Jul 2014
                              • 819

                              #29
                              Originally posted by Daizan
                              That is diminishing slowly in my own life just from becoming deluded and proud then falling flat on my face over and over again. There is a (probably made up) story about the death of Oscar Wilde. He was on his death bed in some hotel and was forced to look at some very ugly wallpaper all day. Then finally just be before dying he looked at it one more time and said "One of us has to go". True or not it is a great story and it speaks to egotism it seems.
                              Thanks Daizan.

                              I could not say that it is diminishing in my life but at least I have started to notice it.
                              Many years ago I used to practice aikido, and read somewhere that it was the art of becoming one with the mat.

                              I believe life is something similar, with pride getting all the time in the way, and we falling and rising to fall again with the taste of the mat still fresh in our mouths.

                              Gassho,
                              Daiyo

                              #SatToday
                              Gassho,Walter

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                              • Jeremy

                                #30
                                I love this quote from Walpola Sri Rahula's "What The Buddha Taught" (p37):
                                According to the teaching of the Buddha, the idea of self is an imaginary, false belief which has no corresponding reality, and it produces harmful thoughts of 'me' and 'mine', selfish desire, craving, attachment, hatred, illwill, conceit, pride, egoism, and other defilements, impurities and problems. It is the source of all the troubles in the world from personal conflicts to wars between nations. In short, to this view can be traced all the evil in the world.
                                Such sweeping certainty is awesome (-:

                                step lightly... stay free...
                                Jeremy
                                st

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