Ego in practice.

[Victor Chu]

Ego can be a problem in our practice and I can't help but see that for a lot of people including myself, the more we practice or learn, the more egotistic we sometimes seem to be and not even realize it. This goes for people who seems to had practice for s very long time as well. Buddha and Mara seems to he one step apart. This lead to problem that lead to suffering such as being prideful, having envy, being jealous, holding grudge Etc.

My question is, does this happen to you and how do we deal with our ego? Is letting go completely of ego possible?

Thank you
Victor

[Jishin]

Hi,

Whatever you can touch, see, smell, taste, hear and not touch, taste, see, smell and hear, all ego. A rock is ego. A tree is ego. A mountain and the clouds, ego. The smell of fresh rain. Ego. The sky above and the earth bellow and all in between. Ego, not ego and beyond ego and not ego. Ego.

Mind is ego.

Egotistical, huh?

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Myosha]

My question is, does this happen to you and how do we deal with our ego? Is letting go completely of ego possible?

Thank you
Victor

Hello,

Recognize it and let it go.

Repeat as needed.


Gassho
Myosha sat today

[Cumminjd]

Hey!

I often find that ego appears, and I try to identify those times, and see what offsets them. Most apparently when I am angry. Knowing what causes it to appear seems to help me identify those situations and take a step back to actually analyze everything objectively. I usually find that both and neither parties or situations are wrong.

I hope that helps. It makes sense to me haha

Gassho
James
SatToday

[Cumminjd]

Hello,

Recognize it and let it go.

Repeat as needed.


Gassho
Myosha sat today

I would go with Myosha's advice over mine. Its much simpler

Gassho
James
SatToday

[Mp]

Hello Victor,

When we create separation between self and other, that is ego. Seeing and accepting the interconnectedness of all things allows the ego to fall away. =)

I also feel that attachment can be a fuel to ego ... having thoughts, ideas, belief, etc is ok, but when we are attached and controlled by them, the ego wins; having an open heart and mind allows the ego not to win.

Gassho
Shingen

#sattoday

[Rich]

Hello,

Recognize it and let it go.

Repeat as needed.


Gassho
Myosha sat today

Yup, that's it.
The mind makes the ego when it separates the self from other. Then there is an opposition, a conflict, a fight. Ego is relationship between self and other. When there is anger, hate, fear, hatred, ego gets stronger; when there is love, compassion, sympathy, ego fades. When we practice, we become aware and let it go. Just being present we drop the ego and forget the self said dogen

SAT today

[Rich]

Hello Victor,



When we create separation between self and other, that is ego. Seeing and accepting the interconnectedness of all things allows the ego to fall away. =)



I also feel that attachment can be a fuel to ego ... having thoughts, ideas, belief, etc is ok, but when we are attached and controlled by them, the ego wins; having an open heart and mind allows the ego not to win.



Gassho

Shingen



#sattoday

Yes, attachment has caused me to miss more of life than anything.

SAT today

[Jundo]

Ego can be a problem in our practice and I can't help but see that for a lot of people including myself, the more we practice or learn, the more egotistic we sometimes seem to be and not even realize it. This goes for people who seems to had practice for s very long time as well. Buddha and Mara seems to he one step apart. This lead to problem that lead to suffering such as being prideful, having envy, being jealous, holding grudge Etc.

My question is, does this happen to you and how do we deal with our ego? Is letting go completely of ego possible?

Thank you
Victor

I was joking with someone recently that many of the Buddhist Teachers I know have very very big "Non-Egos".

I do not believe that, so long as we are in human form, we can be completely free of ego, in the sense of not having whatsoever a personal sense of "self", and its desires and tendencies for better and worse. It may be possible to completely abandon the worst of human psychology ... such as pride, envy, anger, jealousy ... so that not even a drop remains, but one would need to be a very advanced practitioner, i.e., a Buddha in fact.

However, Buddhist Practice allows us to do two things with our humanity:

First, it allows us to soften, sublimate, balance and control our worst psychological nature, not falling prisoner to extremes, turning negatives in a positive direction. For example, if some of these attributes can be compared to "fire", our practice teaches us to keep the fires in check ... use them for positive purposes like heat and cooking, not to burn down the whole house in runaway emotions. I wrote something on that concerning anger once ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?8266-Playing-With-Fire

Some pride, jealousy, anger and the like may remain, but we more quickly let it go, do not get tied up in it as easily, are not its prisoner.

The second approach that Buddhist Practice allows is what I would call "seeing through the self-other divide" such that pride, envy, jealousy, anger and all the rest have no way to arise ... because there is no separate "I" to be jealous of or angry at "you" for example. Yes, Zen Practice allows us to attain such a peaceful, whole view.

Unfortunately, I do not believe it possible for human beings to completely stay in that "undivided" view all the time, because we soon must get back to living in this complex world of "me" and "you" and such. However, what happens is that the "undivided" view comes to permeate and perfume our day-to-day "divided" view. What is the result? Well, one might experience "anger" but simultaneously a realm in which there is "nothing to be angry about", one might experience "jealousy" but simultaneously a realm in which there is "nothing to compare, no loss or gain" etc. etc.

When that perfuming and permeation happens, the anger, jealousy etc. etc. simply cannot be as they were before.

Something like that, I hope it is understandable.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Getchi]

Than you myosha and Jundo, a great teaching there!I've often said e go is what you desire to possess, the rest is just human.Gassho,Ge offSatToday and learnt a new way

[Byokan]

...Buddhist Practice allows us to do two things with our humanity:

First, it allows us to soften, sublimate, balance and control our worst psychological nature, not falling prisoner to extremes, turning negatives in a positive direction. For example, if some of these attributes can be compared to "fire", our practice teaches us to keep the fires in check ... use them for positive purposes like heat and cooking, not to burn down the whole house in runaway emotions. I wrote something on that concerning anger once ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?8266-Playing-With-Fire

Some pride, jealousy, anger and the like may remain, but we more quickly let it go, do not get tied up in it as easily, are not its prisoner.

The second approach that Buddhist Practice allows is what I would call "seeing through the self-other divide" such that pride, envy, jealousy, anger and all the rest have no way to arise ... because there is no separate "I" to be jealous of or angry at "you" for example. Yes, Zen Practice allows us to attain such a peaceful, whole view.

Unfortunately, I do not believe it possible for human beings to completely stay in that "undivided" view all the time, because we soon must get back to living in this complex world of "me" and "you" and such. However, what happens is that the "undivided" view comes to permeate and perfume our day-to-day "divided" view. What is the result? Well, one might experience "anger" but simultaneously a realm in which there is "nothing to be angry about", one might experience "jealousy" but simultaneously a realm in which there is "nothing to compare, no loss or gain" etc. etc.

When that happens, the anger, jealousy etc. etc. simply cannot be as they were before.

Something like that, I hope it is understandable.

Gassho, J

SatToday

Thank you Jundo,

this is so clear. And inspiring. Gives hope that someday I might not feel the need to drag this 2,000 lb. gorilla (ego) around with me everywhere I go.

Yes, attachment has caused me to miss more of life than anything.

Rich, this goes straight to my heart. Thank you. I will remember this.

Myosha, dang, that's it, isn't it. Lather, rinse, repeat. Recognize, let go, repeat. My new mantra. Thank you.

Golly, we have smart people here.

Gassho
Lisa
sat today

[Jishin]

Ego in practice.

Hi Victor,

To study the Buddha Way is to study the self. To study the self is to forget the self. To forget the self is to be verified by all things. To be verified by all things is to let the body and mind of the self and the body and mind of others drop off. There is a trace of realization that cannot be grasped. We endlessly express this ungraspable trace of realization. -Dogen - GenjoKoan.

Catch 22. Need ego to catch ego where there is no ego at all. What is one to do? I say party naked. Take off identity clothing, drop off body and mind and jump into the Zazen pool of practice-realization and...



Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Luciana]

"To forget the self is to be verified by all things." Interesting translation. I have heard before, "to forget the self is to be enlightened by all things". Can you comment on this? Thank you.

_/\_

L.

sat2day

[Jishin]

To forget the self is to be verified by all things. “To be verified by all things” has the same meaning as “all things coming and carrying out practice-enlightenment through the self.” By genuinely just sitting, we root our whole being in the ground of interdependent origination. - Shohaku Okumura - Realizing GenjoKoan

I am not a good commentator. Jundo is though.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Jundo]

"To forget the self is to be verified by all things." Interesting translation. I have heard before, "to forget the self is to be enlightened by all things". Can you comment on this? Thank you.

_/\_

L.

sat2day

Hi Luniana,

The actual Kanji character, 証 (Shou) means to be proven, certified, established, a seal of approval ... thus enlightened. When the world and the 10,000 things (myriad dharmas) of the world are thus, we are thus ... for we are so. All divisions forgotten, and yet all things flow as us and we flow as all things ... leaving just the flowing flowing.

That is the Certified Truth!

Here is how various translators have handled this ...

Nishijima-Cross:
To learn Buddhism is to learn ourselves. To learn ourselves is to forget ourselves. To forget ourselves is to be experienced by millions of things and phenomena. To be experienced by millions of things and phenomena is to let our own body and mind, and the body and mind of the external world, fall away. [Then] we can forget the [mental] trace of realization, and show the [real] signs of forgotten realization continually, moment by moment.

Tanahashi:
To study the buddha way is to study the self. To study the self is to forget the self. To forget the self is to be actualized by myriad things. When actualized by myriad things, your body and mind as well as the bodies and minds of others drop away. No trace of realization remains, and this no-trace continues endlessly.

Waddell-Abe
To learn the Buddha Way is to learn one's self. To learn one's self is to forget one's self. To forget one's self is to be confirmed by all dharmas. To be confirmed by all dharmas is to cast off one's body and mind and the bodies and minds of others as well. All trace of enlightenment disappears, and this traceless enlightenment continues on without end.

Cook:
To study the Buddha Way is to study the self. To study the self is to forget the self. To forget the self is to be authenticated by the myriad things. To be authenticated by the myriad things is to drop off the mind-body of oneself and others. There is [also] remaining content with the traces of enlightenment, and one must eternally emerge from this resting.

Cleary:
Studying the Buddha Way is studying oneself. Studying oneself is forgetting oneself. Forgetting oneself is being enlightened by all things. Being enlightened by all things is causing the body-mind of oneself and the body-mind of others to be shed. There is ceasing the traces of enlightenment, which causes one to forever leave the traces of enlightenment which is cessation.

Nishiyama-Stevens
To study the Buddha way is to study oneself. To study oneself is to forget oneself. To forget oneself is to be enlightened by the myriad dharmas. To be enlightened by the myriad dharmas is to bring about the dropping away of body and mind of both oneself and others. The traces of enlightenment come to an end, and this traceless enlightenment is continued endlessly.

Gassho, J

SatToday