Still here not there....

[alan.r]

Your country church (which I love too and have a favourite around here) is just like that. You drop right into the experience, that is your zazen right there. You don't have to think why or how this experience is taking place, whether it is worth doing or where it is taking you but just to be there. Try the same with zazen.

Yes, that's it. What Kokuu said. The world is right there, you are right there with it, you are it, it is you - what is there to get? Well, I think our mind says "What is there to get? What there is to get is the deep, clear feeling and knowledge that I am the world, that the universe is me. That's what there is to get. And I haven't felt that yet, haven't experienced that yet, so there must be something wrong." I think this is what Sam, and all of us, go through at times. Certainly has been there for me. But how can you "get" that when it's already occurring - what things just as they are need nothing else. That's faith. We're not waiting for the universe to tap us on the shoulder when we're sitting zazen and say, "Yes, you just got it. You're pure, enlightened now. You finally did it right." Not going to happen because it's already in us, all around us, as us, us as it, and if we can just open ourselves to it - well, that's zazen to me, a faith in opening beyond my ideas, my wants, to everything. Tony, I think you're doing great; the same way you go on that bike ride you describe, as Kokuu says, sit zazen like that.

Gassho

PS: Nice to see you here Kokuu.

[Dosho]

Tony,

I was told recently that in many cases my words sound like canned zen responses which carry no weight. I'd agree to a certain extent because I might have felt the same in his shoes. But these things that Jundo says have a way of fitting better over time. At first we think the sleeves are too long, the neck too tight, and the color awful. And until you simply accept that in the beginning things just don't fit as you wish them to, you may keep running into the wall instead of staring at it. See, I did it again!

For me, I told myself early on that if I tried to be enlightened I never would be. So, I stopped trying to see some tangible result from practice. And, after awhile, practice just became second nature and I could see how I had changed. Just the other day the thought came to me, "Thoughts aren't real." I have said that to myself and others countless times and was sincere in my belief. But that day it just seemed more true. It defies logic, I know. But that's really the only type of "I GET IT!" moment you may ever have.

Over the years I have seen people come and go at Treeleaf, with a handful leaving with some level of anger at the way Jundo teaches. To them and you I say, "Maybe this place isn't for you." It's not that I don't think Jundo can help those folks; I think he can. But until they surrender their suspicion and doubt there may be little that can be accomplished. Drop all that chatter in your head and sit down. Maybe it sounds disingenuous, but I assure you I mean it and believe it 100%.

May the path find you even if you can't find it.

Gassho,
Dosho

[Meikyo]

So many wise words!
Thank you all.

Gassho

[Daiyo]

Hi, after a couple of very busy weeks, I dropped by just to thank you all for your insights on this topic which is very useful for me.
I'm very glad to read you, Kokuu, again, hope you're feeling better.
I want to thank Aske because he speaks very clear about these things I was thinking about, and didn't know how to answer (not to mention his excellent summaries in the precepts study threads which are also very useful)
And of course Tony for being so honest to write about his doubts and chasing for an answer.

I feel very much the same way.

If I might add my 2 cents here I'd say that in my extremely short experience, I had to drop most questions because I'm so dumb to long elaborate on them.
So I had to stick with the faith. Of course questions keep arising, but as I can not answer them, and am so dumb to understand from sutras, not to mention Dogen, my only resource left is to sit with trust that what I'm told to do by teachers and more experienced practitioners will eventually lead me to a deeper, non-intellectual understanding.

So I just keep sitting, and I don't mean "I just sit" as someone who has mastered anything, quite the contrary, as someone who has only that possibility, out of his own limitations.
I am too lazy about thinking too much because I'm not very smart and paradoxes are like red hot iron balls that I don't come to swallow and for now prefer to spit them off.

So I sit letting paradoxes be, and time to time unwantedly get to enjoy a beautiful and ephemeral moment of having a glimpse at the wonders reality puts into our eyes constantly but we can barely see.
Besides, doing this, I got to be slightly nicer with myself and people around me, and this has largely paid the effort of sitting.


Thanks everybody for your practice and patience.


Gassho,
Walter

[Shugen]

Still here not there....

Hello all,

Here is link to a blogpost on the concept of "Faith" that I found interesting:

http://thatssozen.blogspot.com/2014/10/what-we-talk-about-when-we-talk-about.html?m=1

(Sorry, you may have to copy and paste as I'm doing this from my phone)

Gassho,


Shugen

[Myosha]

Hello,

Thank you for the link.

It 'quacks' me up!^^ (sorry)


Gassho,
Myosha

[Shugen]

Hello,

Thank you for the link.

It 'quacks' me up!^^ (sorry)


Gassho,
Myosha

😀


Shugen

[Kyonin]

Hi guys.

Nothing to add really. Just wanted to thank you all for this thread.

Gassho to all,

Kyonin

[Meikyo]

I want to thank you Walter for your praise.
I'm glad that what I do can be of help.
Everybody else deserves the credit really.
I just try.

Oh - and nice to see you again Kokuu! Hope you're doing better.

Gassho

[Jishin]

I have a very happy doberman called dharma.

Gassho, Jishin

Attachment to dharma.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1414091107.114151.jpg

[dharmasponge]

Still sitting.....just..... _/|\_

[Oheso]

Hi everyone,

Dogen and Shikantaza as explain here is fast becoming a Koan of sorts to me. I now feel compelled to reconcile what is apparently clear ad daylight to many in here. I have oft thought of walking away from Zen (Soto) as I could, I suppose, be busy practicing another form instead of trying to work out what Dogen is teaching.

I guess it boils down to the fact that almost every response I receive is what we SHOULDN'T be doing as oppose to addressing the question which is more often than not what SHOULD we be doing. I speak specifically re Zazen in this context.

Sometimes post sitting I get a small and brief glimpse into something that seems to say "you cannot go anywhere as you're already there and you cannot gain anything as you already have it".

But that feels like some sort of ego bloating solipsistic stance I am not prepared to acknowledge.

Dogens 'Practice is Enlightenment' eludes.me still and despite being able to fathom most philosophical quandaries I am left cold re this.

Practice is practice surely? Practice in order to get better....To improve...To become proficient? Proficient at sitting in order for the mind to become quiet enough to experience reality as it is. This has purpose, aim and a result from the labours.

To say there is no gain, no result, no attainment (at all) and no method seems to fly in the face of logic.

I can hear "there is no logic", "drop all thought of result", "just sit and let go of any though of this or that"

....means nothing to me, but I am guessing it really should?!?

I am on then circumference of frustration re this now.

_/|\_

isn't it the case that expecting the mind to completely cease production of expectations, cause and result relationships and ideas about desireable states of being is unrealistic or in the final analysis unnecessary, don't we need to learn to see through it? we don't expect the mind to quit being a mind, right? rather, we sit with what is, watch as things grow calm and settle, to see the layer upon layer of conditioning that desires and goals are part of-

I just try to remember that in learning/ knowing/ practicing Buddhadharma, those perhaps more usual models of thought of mine, though often instrumental in getting from A to B, don't apply, so one must stop trying to apply those terms. thats all.
I can not plan, conspire, devise or otherwise seek to grasp Anything Here, nor Now. This is completely out of the league of mis-matched locks and keys or getting on the wrong train going in the wrong direction. No previous mode or model of thought prepares or informs my knowing faculty for this one.



gassho, O

[Oheso]

but on the other hand, I confess that on another level, the desire to know or understand and to be resolved exists and I think functions as I kind of compass and pull, regardless.

Thomas Merton once said something in a prayer about having no idea whether or not his thoughts or actions were pleasing to God, but that he could believe his desire to please God might in fact do just that, and so Merton had reason to persist.

gassho, O

[Jishin]

Still there not here...

Gassho, Jishin