Blue Sky Clouded Mind

[Jundo]

A variation of "Blue Sky, Clouded Mind" at this link. All these traditional images (they are not my invention, but go back through the centuries) .. the blue sky (or blue mountain) and clouds, the mirror holding all in clarity and equanimity, the moon of Enlightenment shining in all the many ripples of the water, the Lotus and Mud ... are just trying to explain the hard to grasp ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?12376-Different-ways-Shikantaza-is-taught&p=129842&viewfull=1#post129842

Gassho, J

[Neo]

Really nice thread, thank you all. I gained courage to start sitting again.

I only have one input to make - Breaking bad is the best TV-series ever created, its deep and about really feeling alive in the moment, creating something of your self. It also gives a clear, non-censored version of the ugliness of this life/society. It has many existentialist thoughts..

thank you again..

[Amelia]

I do agree that "Breaking Bad" is an excellent show. Great example of real consequences, with some Hollywood flair. I think perhaps Jundo was only using it as an example- not an attack against watching the show.

[Amelia]

Unless Jundo actually very much dislikes the show, in which case, it doesn't really matter whether or not everyone has the same opinion of something we like, even if he is our teacher.

[Jundo]

No, no ... I like the show VERY MUCH. I am only into Season 1 now (shows come to Japan late). So, NO SPOILERS PLEASE!!!!!

Yes, it is a good lesson on how our actions have consequences. Also, how people can end up doing bad things for all the seemingly right reasons. Under the greed, anger, violence and divisions there is Buddha hidden.

Gassho, Jundo

[Amelia]

My fiancé and I just finished the show for the first time. As an off-topic note: it is excellent.

[Jinyo]

thanks to all for a very interesting thread.

There are some great metaphors here (like the one about not getting to keep our favourite china when we sit Zazen -thank you Hans).

But isn't that the gift - the great relief - to drop every thing (as Dosho emphasizes).

A simple instruction - yet we find it so very hard to actualize - always falling into that 'gap' that Dogen writes of.

I think we are fortunate to have two teaching styles here = at times I gravitate to one or the other. Sometimes I don't gravitate to either - I've come to accept that's Ok too.

So many words out there - so many teachings. We have to trust that our inner compass holds - will reliably point North when we think we're lost. 'Suchness' is there all along.

With gratitude,



Willow

[RichardH]

Wow. Thank you, Jundo. You put up these amazing things.

Gassho Daizan

[Peacemouse]

Hello all

I am beginning to think we ought to add a vow, making it 5 vows, to answer all questions though answers endless.

I am am finding myself in a state of confusion as to exactly the right method for shikantaza. Now I am sure some will say oh well by now you ought to know what you are doing , and maybe it is more that now that I have some experience, I do not really think I DO know. I want to make sure I am doing this correctly, not that I am rushing towards enlightenment or anything like that.

My confusion arises with the whole concept of returning to the blue sky in your mind. I don't really think I understand what we are to do with thoughts when we sit. Some say let them be, some say let them go. Taigu, I believe, says drop everything.

In one of Jundo's instructional videos he talks about returning to the clear blue sky. This is a similar technique to Taoist "seated earth meditation" in which one sits and visualizes a blue sky and each thought is a cloud which you visualize blowing away. Maybe this is why I get confused.

So do we

1. simply make an effort to drop all thoughts and visualize a clear blue sky?

2. Is the blue sky thing just a metaphor for dropping all thoughts?

3. Do we drop all thoughts or just sit with all thoughts letting them be?

4. Are any of these thoughts on thoughts correct?

What I have been doing is just sitting, and when thoughts come up just letting them go, telling my mind to not dwell on them this is the time for not-thought. Is this correct?

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Thank you!


Gassho
C

The engine is still running but the transmission is in neutral so the engine doesn't go anywhere. After awhile, the engine may get very quiet or it may not. Either way it doesn't drag you anywhere. You don't have to actively keep putting the transmission into neutral because often just realizing that the engine is pulling you IS ITSELF returning to neutral. If you then have an intentional conversation in your mind about the fact that you were being pulled, that itself is again engaging the transmission and being pulled along.

[Joyo]

Sitting is simple, folks.
Although its depth is beyond description, it is instantly available.
Thoughts? They will never stop and thinking about thoughts is a good way to get lost...in them.
It is funny to see how our habits and conditioning creep in our practice and we sit here as capitalist animals, trying to get better, make it work, control it, get something out of it. We draw maps and describe steps and stages, out if the boundless we scoop a bit of dust and claim it is our own or we stand helpless wanting to get an explanation.

The bottom line: shikantaza is useless and so are we.

The joy of being nothing...

Gassho

T.

Thank you for this, Taigu.

Gassho,
Joyo

[Peacemouse]

Sitting is simple, folks.
Although its depth is beyond description, it is instantly available.
Thoughts? They will never stop and thinking about thoughts is a good way to get lost...in them.
It is funny to see how our habits and conditioning creep in our practice and we sit here as capitalist animals, trying to get better, make it work, control it, get something out of it. We draw maps and describe steps and stages, out if the boundless we scoop a bit of dust and claim it is our own or we stand helpless wanting to get an explanation.

The bottom line: shikantaza is useless and so are we.

The joy of being nothing...

Gassho

T.

We are of such an acquisitive mindset, aren't we? I'm constantly amazed that no matter how many times I acquire the thing that I think will make me happy and it doesn't, I can still find myself believing that it'll really work NEXT time. I've done it THOUSANDS of times!

Chet

[Dosho]

I'm constantly amazed that no matter how many times I acquire the thing that I think will make me happy and it doesn't, I can still find myself believing that it'll really work NEXT time. I've done it THOUSANDS of times!

Yup...me too. It would be fascinating if it wasn't so depressing.

Gassho,
Dosho