Blue Sky Clouded Mind

[Shugen]

There is always the opportunity to sit together on G+

Gassho Daizan

Assuming you can drag your lazy butt outa bed......

Sorry fellas!

Repentant Gassho,

[Dosho]

Yes, thanks Jundo. I've noticed this and this is what I was trying to get at above. There is nothing to do with thoughts! Nothing! We have nothing to do with them! All I really meant to express in my above comment is that there "seems" like there is something to do with thoughts because thoughts are always part of the equation of shikantaza (drop Thoughts; let Thoughts go; let the Clouds/Thoughts pass, etc) - but this is the difficulty we all get trapped in sometimes, focusing on "thoughts" as though they're somehow different from everything else, somehow not blue sky also, some the "most important" part of the shikantaza thing. It's like chasing after enlightenment/trying to let go of thoughts. For me, I sit with a great allowing, acceptance, and gratitude, and out of that, there is wholeness, thoughts and all.

Pesky thoughts! I think most of us focus so much attention on thoughts because, for many years, those thoughts were what we thought of as "us". I think, therefore I am! Yes, indeed. But then we muck it up by believing that thoughts make us who we are. I think, therefore I am all these things I tell myself, which are affected by other people's thoughts in limitless combinations...and stuff. That isn't quite as catchy, now is it?

The brain is a marvelous creation, but it also causes a lot of pain and suffering. We wouldn't be anything without it...and yet we so easily think it is everything we are. I do not believe that to be so.

Or at least, in my limited experience as a priest in training, that's what I think. There, see! I'm still doing it! How about a sit instead? Better yet, how about a sit also?

Gassho,
Dosho

[Myosha]

Hello,

One's bones know sitting is Whole and Complete.

One's bones that don't, can't be forced to realize.


How does one get to Carnegie Hall?


Gassho,
Myosha

[Juki]

For me, this is hard to articulate in words. If I am sitting openly and spaciously, just sitting, I am aware of the thoughts that arise and that awareness frees me to let go of the thoughts. Sometimes, I latch onto a thought and start chewing on it. In those moments, I am no longer sitting openly and spaciously, but I am not aware of that because I am letting the thought take over and intrude. But then something happens. I become aware that I have latched on, that I am grinding my gears, and in that moment of awareness, I can let go of the thought and return to just sitting. So, for me at least, as soon as I become aware of my thinking, I stop thinking. Sounds like complete nonsense, but words fail me here.

Gassho,
Juki

[Genshin]

Hi Juki,

Not nonsense. For me, you describe it pretty well. Thank you.

Gassho
Genshin

[Nameless]

Thank you all, great thread. Nothing to add, just reiterating that the sky is always clear, even when it's cloudy, and that we see this when we feel no need to look at anything else, accepting the wholeness of the sky that neither comes nor goes. Unless its raining, perfectly all right to use an umbrella and see that even the rain is clear.

Gassho, Foolish John

[RichardH]

Assuming you can drag your lazy butt outa bed......

Sorry fellas!

Repentant Gassho,

Don't worry about it. I was asleep the whole sitting anyway. Dreamed I was flying over Niagara falls in a zeppelin. Strange.


Gassho Daizan

[Taigu]

Sitting is simple, folks.
Although its depth is beyond description, it is instantly available.
Thoughts? They will never stop and thinking about thoughts is a good way to get lost...in them.
It is funny to see how our habits and conditioning creep in our practice and we sit here as capitalist animals, trying to get better, make it work, control it, get something out of it. We draw maps and describe steps and stages, out if the boundless we scoop a bit of dust and claim it is our own or we stand helpless wanting to get an explanation.

The bottom line: shikantaza is useless and so are we.

The joy of being nothing...

Gassho

T.

[Taigu]

As long as you present pounds of flesh and crafted words, you don t practice the real thing.
When the real thing and only this sits you, then pounds of flesh and crafted words don't matter anymore.

The point is not "to get it" but to forget it.

Please read, practice and become Genjokoan
Ten thousand things arise
In this dust and light
Are not one neither two
The hell with I and others
In this
we loose everything
Surrender everything
In this
It
is

[Ryumon]

I used to worry a lot about all these technical points, wondering why there wasn't some really precise user's manual of shikantaza. Then I just stopped trying to get it, and figured that it was better to just give up trying to get it right.

Gassho,

Kirk


(Posted from my iPhone; please excuse any typos or brevity.)

[Rich]

Great thread, thx.
Was lost but now I'm fine 😊


Kind regards. /\

[Ishin]

Wonderful post! You, me and clark should probably form an "allowing" group against Jundo and dosho's "letting go" group

Clark, thank you for asking this question and sorry if I confused you with my thread yesterday

Gassho,
Sam

I manage confusion all on my own. But thanks just the same
Gassho C

[Joyo]

This is a great thread, thanks for posting, Clark. I have wondered these same questions also. I have been sitting for 1 yr now, and I think I"m just starting to get this shikantaza. What I mean is that there is nothing to **get** and it's taken me a year to get that. I just sit and let go, and let go again and again, surrendering again and again, as my mind continues to wander. As Taigu said, it is nothing and so are we. And yet, in practicing it, there is something there, even if it's just the "joy in being nothing"

Gassho,
Joyo

[Risho]

Hahaha "capitalist animal". How true, and I love that saying! What can I get out of it... and forgetting so much as Jundo said the dedication required. I always have problems remembering that practice is not for myself. So often I use it to get something.. peace of mind.. reducing it to some crap, fake zen.

Awesome posts

Gassho,

Risho

[shikantazen]

Here is a link to genjo koan (Nishijima's translation) that Taigu is referring to:

http://www.thezensite.com/ZenTeachings/Dogen_Teachings/GenjoKoan8.htm#nish1

Gassho,
Sam