The beast, and other representatives of the darkness...

[Keishin]

Well, well, well
I'm late to the party--bright balloons and corpses here!

I have always appreciated the posts of yours I've come across Stephanie. I like what you bring here. Actually, I like what everyone brings here. Some folks I skim, and then I get to see why I do that...

Lately I just haven't had the time to come as regularly, nor the time to stay as long as I did before. I don't know if that's a good thing or not. For a while I've been coming by and it's been pretty slim pickings--nothing setting any kind of a spark in me. And then, now and again an amazing thread will have gone off like a rocket and been carried so far along that it is practically spent out by the time I've come upon it.

To tell you the truth, I prefer posting anonymously--I don't like the coloring of what it is I am trying to express, to explore with someone's IDEA of what/who I am and where I'm coming from--(which is entirely 'normal,' but beside the point I am struggling to make, striving to explore). When this kind of thing happens and remarks are aimed at me personally, and not focussed on the topic I've raised, it becomes a jumbled confusion for me--I wasn't, after all, offering myself as a topic of discussion.....just my point (but of course, my point came from 'me'). In my own experience of these things, my perceived goal was to use the group as a way to amplify my own method of exploration, to use the group as a brighter light to add to my dim bulbed flashlight, as a more powerful scope than my cyclops self's monocle.

I like it, in posting anonymously, that if it's mine to work on alone--my query is left alone, or briefly, briefly remarked upon. There is no dissection of my character, my nature (as conjured up in the imagination of the reader). And, on the other hand, if it is a hot topic, it gets carried a ways--like an idea surfing an internet mosh pit--before it is set down and the next idea hoisted above for a bit.

This internet Sangha is an experiment, after all. We are all finding our way in it.
I very much appreciate the ardor, the candor, and the humor here.
I most of all appreciate the perserverance, Stephanie, a wonderful 'teaching' for us all.

May we all realize the buddha way together!

[Gregor]

. . .

Impermanence is the only true constant.

[Lynn]

NO GASSHO FOR YOU...ONE YEAR!!!

[Eika]

Hi, Stephanie.
Looking back over the last week or so's posts, I get that you are feeling like no one (other than Harry maybe) is supporting you in your questions. Know that I fully appreciate your presence here and welcome your ideas and questions. My points were meant to slow your sense of time-scale (I think you are wanting answers to questions that take a lifetime to answer in the space of days/weeks), and give my bit of perspective about your method of questioning. That's all. I hope you don't feel ganged-up on, though that is what is happening I suppose. If I have contributed to that, I apologize. I still stand by what I have said, but it is truly with the kindest of intentions.
So, keep asking questions . . . my advice is to ask individual, compartmentalized questions. Also, being prudent with opening up is helpful . . . I'm not saying don't do it, just don't let it all out in the space of a week; it is simply too much information for myself (and I assume others) to handle constructively. It is overwhelming. You have had a lifetime of dealing with your particular issues and temperament, but we are on the outside of that so it is hard to be helpful when evaluating such a complex set of issues.
With regard to your interactions with Jundo, all I have to go on is what has been posted here on the forum (not email, PMs, etc). I think there is plenty of blame to go around for whatever you want to call this round of fussiness. Jundo may have been too curt, you monopolize threads by sheer volume of words, Harry does his thing, and I do my little teacher-musician thing, etc. I have to think that if we are Buddhists we have to see that it is all our responsibility. It is my fault you are upset with Jundo because I have been a player in creating the conditions for this little ruckus. It is your fault, it is Jundo's fault, it is Harry's fault, my fault, Greg's, etc, etc, etc. I sense that everyone is in their own little corners contemplating how they are seeing this with wisdom and compassion, but the truth is that all of this is dependent on all the other pieces.
I'm digressing here. If we are not helping, tell us, but keep in mind that sometimes we don't like the very advice that is best for us; and sometimes we cannot even conceive how a medicine works logically, but it may work nonetheless.
My best and sincere respect,
Bill

[paige]

Chaps,

Do we now refer to Jundo as 'the leader'?

That's an interesting new trend.

If Jundo's The Leader, then what I want to know is...

How much longer before he takes us all on his spaceship to Blisstonia?

[Eika]

We haven't been 'nice'. What are we worried about, that we send out the signal that we aren't singing from the one hymn sheet? That our precious praqctice will be sullied? Is Soto Zen in such a precarious state, is the practice of it so brittle? Sounds like a crappy sort of sect to me.

The walls have closed in a little bit in here. We've made the sangha smaller. I think that's a shame.

Hi, Harry. No beef with you. You have kept your ship on the same course it has been on for a while. I do think that there is a bit of a contradiction in the above quote. Do you really think that not "being nice" and the sangha getting smaller are not related? I still maintain that we are all culpable. Right Speech is important because all words affect everybody. When a new variable is introduced into an ecosystem, it affects everything in the ecosystem. How that variable fares is also up to the entire ecosystem (not he best metaphor, but it's all I've got right now). All of this is OUR fault. Not Jundo's, not Stephanie's, not Bill's, but Jundostephanieharrypaigelynnkeishinjanicelouisbill 's (forgive me but I couldn't bring myself to include everyone's name). I don't see this as passing the buck, but as a medicine for self-righteousness.

Bill

[doogie]

Okay, Harry. I'll bite. And I do mean this entirely without malice and with the best of intentions. I haven't read all of your posts, and I've only been here for a couple weeks, so mine is an entirely outside perspective. And I hope people will forgive me if I am completely wrong here, but having spent too much time in other forums I've learned to recognize certain patterns in people's behaviors, and how those behaviors affect the whole group.

From my perspective you are exhibiting troll-like behavior at times. I think in the absence of a true troll, regulars sometimes take on troll-like attributes to stir things up. It's usually a bit of a power trip, but I have no idea what your motives are. I would never presume to guess. All I can do is tell you how an outsider might view what's been going on the last couple of days, and how it might drive off those who are genuinely searching for a sangha and not just a forum, as well as attract sharks who can smell a feeding frenzy a mile away.

Earlier I said to myself "I don't need this drama" and told myself I wasn't going to return. At least for a while. Then I sat with Jundo's Genjo Sit-a-long VIII, and had a couple of nice isights that I won't bore you all with. The point is, this sangha is perfectly what it is, and each person in it is perfectly as they are, just as I am perfectly Buddha already. Yet I still need to practice and the sangha still has kinks to work out, and as members of the sangha we need to examine our motives for saying what we say, how we say it, and the effect it might have on the entire group.

Oh, and remember that everything said here will go on your permanent record. The internet never forgets.

[Janice]

Bill said:
"we are all culpable. Right Speech is important because all words affect everybody. When a new variable is introduced into an ecosystem, it affects everything in the ecosystem. How that variable fares is also up to the entire ecosystem (not he best metaphor, but it's all I've got right now). All of this is OUR fault. Not Jundo's, not Stephanie's, not Bill's, but Jundostephanieharrypaigelynnkeishinjanicelouisbill 's"

Yes. What appears here is dependent upon conditions to which we all contribute. It is a process and I am glad that we are participating in it.

What we add may provide clarity of vision for someone among us. Be who you are, while encouraging others to do the best they can from where they are right now.

Janice

[Gregor]

Stephanie,

I'm willing to admit my responsibility in this situation. Usually, I tend to shy away from such conflicts. However, this time I chose to take a stand. Perhaps, I lost sight of the bigger picture. But, I'm not sure if I could of reacted honestly any other way than I did.

Whatever I had to say was not done to pick on you. Or, to make you feel excluded from the Sangha. My intentions were compassionate. Perhaps, my patience was not what it should have been.

Sometimes it's hard to know when to speak up for what you believe is right, or when to walk away.

I still standby my earlier sentiments. But, I also hope we can all move past this and use it an opportunity to improve communication between everyone involved.

take care,

Greg

[Gregor]

Harry,

I have a lot of respect for you. I hope that you did not consider my expression of disagreement with you as an attack or even as disapproval of your actions.

Hopefully, there are no hard feelings.

take care,

Greg

[Jarkko]

Hey guys, greetings from snowy norway!

what is going on? we have to take care of each other!!

Stop this crazy talking. this wont lead anything.

Diamond Sutra
Chapter 7.
Then Buddha asked Subhuti, "What do you think, Subhuti, has the Buddha arrived at the highest, most fulfilled, most awakened and enlightened mind? Does the Buddha teach any teaching?"

Subhuti replied, "As far as I have understood the lord Buddha's teachings, there is no independently existing object of mind called the highest, most fulfilled, awakened or enlightened mind. Nor is there any independently existing teaching that the Buddha teaches. Why? Because the teachings that the Buddha has realized and spoken of cannot be conceived of as separate, independent things and therefore cannot be described. The truth in them is uncontainable and inexpressible. It neither is, nor is it not. What does this mean? What this means is that Buddhas and disciples are not enlightened by a set method of teachings, but by an internally intuitive process which is spontaneous and is part of their own inner nature."



Gassho

Jarkko

[Gregor]

Hey Harry,

I agree we have lots of space.

take care,

Greg

p.s. -- Nice makeover

[Ankai]

An unfair characterization, Kvon, and you know it.


whatever. I'm done. Peace.

[Stephanie]

OK, I've had about enough too, so I'm unsaddling the drama llama... :lol:

[will]

Wow Steph. Your post are soooo long. I have to apologize for misunderstanding your tone. I don't write such long post, but you have your own thing going on and don't let anyone shut you up. All I can say is go get em tiger and keep sitting and stuff. Harry too. Don't let these w**nkers like me shut you up. Apologies.

Deep Gassho Will