A Nietzsche quote about thinking and ego

[Jundo]

Here's a word of advice, if you really want to 'understand zen'. Just sit.

Stop thinking in terms of either - or (fixing the ego vs abandoning it). Just drop judgments of thinking that this is who you are, and who you are not, who you should be, who you should not be, etc. Also stop trying to think of a way to synthesise these two philosophies. Give yourself a break, relinquish control. As Dogen wrote in Fukanzazengi, "Put aside all involvements and suspend all affairs."

Just really sit. Let go.

I personally found it very scary at first... It felt like I was dying, like the world was going to end if I let my hold of it loosen. It takes some courage, and trust, and faith. Even if they say Buddhism is a compatible religion of modern times, I've found that some faith is still necessary especially when just sitting. Throw yourself into the fire, the whole world is Buddha's body burning in Buddha flames.

If it is difficult, it's ok. As Miyamoto Musashi said, "Of course it is difficult at first. Everything is difficult at first." Just keep trying, man. This practice may sound simple, sometimes easy, but it still takes some effort.

Good luck, Neo. You'll make it.

Ben, seems to me that you are becoming quite gifted at expressing. You are a fast learner and unlearner!

Gassho, J

[Jundo]

Thank you all for your answers, I really appreciate it. Just to clear something out, when I say that I'll try to fix my broken ego, I mean the western way, because that's what we do here (psychoanalysis etc). I know that in Buddhism there's no self to be fixed, rather dropping away of the self, broken or not. That's why people that suffered hard is more likely to take the 'spiritual path' compared to people who is raised in this society and has a 'working' ego.

I know my enemy is my self and, as you say Jundo, the crap that's inside my head that judges me, puts me down, all illusions. I don't know how to get to them, to make my 'soul' realize that it's just delusions created wrongly when I was little. It's dark ghosts that I live with every day, and they are affecting even my physical health as well. And you all say that zazen is the way to make me understand and, maybe not get rid of them, but to understand that it's only junk that don't need to have any impact on me?

Because I also know (or this is what i believe) that your thoughts create your reality. I believe in 'the law of attraction' somehow, it just makes sense to me. And right now, I'm attracting a lot of junk. Have anyone of you read James Allen, or maybe Neville Goddard? Maybe you can compare it with 'cultivating seeds' in the zen-training.

So yes, reading, even if I won't stop with it (because I enjoy reading) won't help me much with the dark pack of junk that I'm afraid of and is directing my life, giving me panic attacks etc. But zazen and 'facing my fears' in a practical way will (what else?), and I know it. It just feels so, scary... even though I know it's the only way to take 'control' of my life again. I live in a state of fear every day. I wish I could just see right through the illusions with all my knowledge, so they won't have any control over me anymore.

And finally. Fixing a broken ego can work to get a life that's, somehow livable, but in the movie 'the matrix', Neo takes the red pill, there's no way back. ... and also I have taken the red pill, I know it's no idea try to fix this ego, that I know is an illusion at the first place. 'ignorance is bliss', for some people, but I'm not ignorant and nor wish I to be.

Kind of verbal wallowing here, too much self-analysis and making a big deal of things. Take it easy.

Perhaps a bit of therapy would help you if you are not already in treatment, to see what is setting off this panic and self-loathing.

But hand in hand with that, one might sit Shikantaza, an action of Wholeness and Completion, dropping away for some minutes all that wallowing, self-analysis and making a big deal ... laying aside the "something to fix" thoughts and dark ghosts (or, at least, just sit for a time letting "dark ghosts" be "dark ghosts" without judgment or resistance to their dark ghostiness! ).

Just stop hitting yourself in the head with some emotional hammer!

Gassho, J

[Neo]

I've tried therapy a few times, it's not doing anything for me. If you'r saying that zazen can't help me to understand my self, and help me with letting go of unhealthy identification with my dark programming then it's nothing for me either. There is things to be fixed, at least something to understand or realize. And I'll have to keep searching until I find something that helps, or die trying.

[Jundo]

I've tried therapy a few times, it's not doing anything for me. If you'r saying that zazen can't help me to understand my self, and help me with letting go of unhealthy identification with my dark programming then it's nothing for me either. There is things to be fixed, at least something to understand or realize. And I'll have to keep searching until I find something that helps, or die trying.

Of course Zazen can help you fix things! Sometimes the way to "fix things" is to stop doing what you are doing. If one is hitting themselves in the head with a hammer again and again, the best answer is not to analyze why or devise a philosophical point of view on hammering or figure out a strategy to stop. The best thing is just to put the hammer down.

When we let go of our negative, self abusive thinking ... clarity comes, illumination light up ... answers manifest (sometimes the best answers appear when we stop asking the self absorbed questions which are of our own making).

Gassho, J

[Daitetsu]

Hi Neo,

It feels like I'm stuck between fixing the broken ego and become someone (existentialism, success literature, self-help) or to just abandon my ego totally (Zen, Buddhism, fight-clubish, spirituality). [ ... ]
I've been stuck like this for many years now... and I don't know if it's building or destroying the ego that I need to do.

Actually both would be wrong!
This is NOT an either-or-question.
You need to get both aspects under one roof.

On the one hand you need your ego to live in this world - you could not "function" without it.
However, you should not take things (and neither yourself) too seriously.

This is the big cosmic joke: You are actually everything that is, but at the same time live as a separate, individual self through which IT/the Tao/the cosmos/God/[please fill in your favourite expression that like the others won't be able to describe the mystery anyway] realises itself.
How funny, tragic, awesome, ordinary and extraordinary that is!

In any case the first thing you must do is to fully accept yourself. And from that basis you can try to change your "little self" - but from a state of acceptance!
If you completely gave up your ego you'd become a robot.
However, at the same time you need to realise you are much more, and that all of this is just a great show - in fact the biggest and grandest show of all.
You are stuck in this "dream" - so make the best out of it for yourself and everyone else. But at the same time you should act with the knowledge that it is in fact a "dream".
Yes, there is birth and death - but no, actually there is not.

You must know that in the long run happiness (not the superficial one, but more a constant state of being) can only come from within - never from outside factors.
Because you cannot control those outside factors. If your hapiness depends on money, power, fame or recognition by others, etc. disappointment is to be expected.
If your happiness comes from within, from a contentment with what is, being happy and grateful for the mere fact of being alive, everywhere is your home, you see others as yourself and "true happiness" can settle.

This is not a one-time-thing though - it is a constant practice.


Gassho,

Daitetsu

[Jundo]

Hi Neo,



Actually both would be wrong!
This is NOT an either-or-question.
You need to get both aspects under one roof.

On the one hand you need your ego to live in this world - you could not "function" without it.
However, you should not take things (and neither yourself) too seriously.

This is the big cosmic joke: You are actually everything that is, but at the same time live as a separate, individual self through which IT/the Tao/the cosmos/God/[please fill in your favourite expression that like the others won't be able to describe the mystery anyway] realises itself.
How funny, tragic, awesome, ordinary and extraordinary that is!

In any case the first thing you must do is to fully accept yourself. And from that basis you can try to change your "little self" - but from a state of acceptance!
If you completely gave up your ego you'd become a robot.
However, at the same time you need to realise you are much more, and that all of this is just a great show - in fact the biggest and grandest show of all.
You are stuck in this "dream" - so make the best out of it for yourself and everyone else. But at the same time you should act with the knowledge that it is in fact a "dream".
Yes, there is birth and death - but no, actually there is not.

You must know that in the long run happiness (not the superficial one, but more a constant state of being) can only come from within - never from outside factors.
Because you cannot control those outside factors. If your hapiness depends on money, power, fame or recognition by others, etc. disappointment is to be expected.
If your happiness comes from within, from a contentment with what is, being happy and grateful for the mere fact of being alive, everywhere is your home and "true happiness" can settle.

This is not a one-time-thing - it is a constant practice.


Gassho,

Daitetsu

Timo, you and Ben are just doing such a much better job today than me at explaining all this stuff! Lovely!

I should shut up and let you two handle it!.

Gassho, J

[Daitetsu]

Timo, you and Ben are just doing such a much better job today than me at explaining all this stuff! Lovely!

I should shut up and let you two handle it!.

Jundo, please, you make me blush and are feeding my ego with this!
No, seriously, I just have great teachers, so 10.000 bows go to you, Taigu and everyone else in this Sangha.


Gassho,

Daitetsu

[Jundo]

are feeding my ego with this!

WHO is feeding the ego? (Here is a clue: It is the ego)

Gassho, J

[Daitetsu]

WHO is feeding the ego? (Here is a clue: It is the ego)

Gassho, J

Hah! You've got me there - thank you!


Gassho,

Daitetsu

[Nameless]

Thank you Daitetsu! Wonderfully said. And yes Neo, that's the other aspect of all these things. When I mentioned no-self before it's true, but also not the big picture. Zen is a this and that frame of mind. Duality falls away in light of a practical paradox. There's no self because we're composed of non-self parts which are constantly in flux, but there also is a self. I am Nameless and John... not two. In the Heart Sutra it's said, "form is emptiness, emptiness is form," yet it's just as true that form is form AND emptiness is emptiness, simultaneously.

This is why one is the other because they are each themselves at the same time. The sea is the sea and the wave is the wave at once, and the sea is the wave and the wave is the sea, ya dig? (Sorry, felt I had to throw a 1960s colloquial in there for some reason). So in this way there is the ego, and there's no ego... together. The ego is broken, and it's not broken. There's Neo and no-Neo. This experience and its resulting behavior is why Zen is called the Middle Way. To fall into neither extreme of the spectrum of duality. This is why Zen doesn't fall into nihilism, and why it cannot integrate the more self-godliness of existentialism.

The no-duality paradigm extends into all concepts. "To go east one mile is to go west one mile." In this way, the ego continues one without anything extra. The sorrow, the concern with self, any anger or greed... they fall away because they're unessential. So experience of the non-self lets the ego realize that its always been at peace beneath all the BS.

Gassho, John

[Jishin]

I get the feeling that u haven't read the whole post here.

Anyway, the zen answer is something like - It's a concept that most of us (99.9% living today) identifies as our self, our sense of worth, seperated from the reste of the world we experience. According to some old teachings it's just an illusion and we are so much more than this small self. Some of us, very few, realizes this and can now dance from morning to nightfall without any fear or anxiety, cause they have leaped beyond all fear.

Think about why you answered this post.

Gassho, Jishin

[Fugu]

Hey Neo. I can relate. I was once in an eerily similar state of mind. Studied philosophy and theology for years trying to expand my mind, answer my questions and come to a view that felt right and... complete. After awhile I started to pick out views I agreed with from all these schools of thought. Started living by my own philosophy. To my amazement, the thing I created was very very similar to Zen Buddhism. When I read the first book on Zen I was blown away. So, I found it very easy to slip right into it because I was kind of practicing before knowing I was practicing haha.

My ego, fed on speculation and intellectualism for almost three decades, has rebelled against zazen at times as well. I find it's beneficial to show myself kindness at such times. Visualize a mother consoling her infant. "It's okay sweetie, you're all right. We're just gonna sit now, okay?" I take a few deep breaths, and envelop myself completely in mindfulness when preparing to sit. Then, the ego settles and submits. Like a child afraid of the dark who's been lulled into sleep. If you're interested, this upcoming column written for the local paper might be useful.

In regards to striving, learning, growing and all that I can only suggest the view of being the moment. If we drop all thoughts of, "Doing this for that reason," "I hate this I wish it was done, " "I love this, I wish it would never end," and just focus on the sweeping when we sweep then it's possible to truly be immersed in the motion of sweeping, united with it. Then, the floor being swept and clean is just a fortunate byproduct. This is anything but stagnant, this is the way of unadulterated equanimity, emotional beauty and satisfaction. The grass doesn't think of growing, it just grows. With this there is unconditional appreciation, which is the essence of enjoyment. That's my take on it at least.

Gassho, John

You need to get a cat.

Gassho,

Lee

[Fugu]

Hey Neo. I can relate. I was once in an eerily similar state of mind. Studied philosophy and theology for years trying to expand my mind, answer my questions and come to a view that felt right and... complete. After awhile I started to pick out views I agreed with from all these schools of thought. Started living by my own philosophy. To my amazement, the thing I created was very very similar to Zen Buddhism. When I read the first book on Zen I was blown away. So, I found it very easy to slip right into it because I was kind of practicing before knowing I was practicing haha.

My ego, fed on speculation and intellectualism for almost three decades, has rebelled against zazen at times as well. I find it's beneficial to show myself kindness at such times. Visualize a mother consoling her infant. "It's okay sweetie, you're all right. We're just gonna sit now, okay?" I take a few deep breaths, and envelop myself completely in mindfulness when preparing to sit. Then, the ego settles and submits. Like a child afraid of the dark who's been lulled into sleep. If you're interested, this upcoming column written for the local paper might be useful.

In regards to striving, learning, growing and all that I can only suggest the view of being the moment. If we drop all thoughts of, "Doing this for that reason," "I hate this I wish it was done, " "I love this, I wish it would never end," and just focus on the sweeping when we sweep then it's possible to truly be immersed in the motion of sweeping, united with it. Then, the floor being swept and clean is just a fortunate byproduct. This is anything but stagnant, this is the way of unadulterated equanimity, emotional beauty and satisfaction. The grass doesn't think of growing, it just grows. With this there is unconditional appreciation, which is the essence of enjoyment. That's my take on it at least.

Gassho, John

You need to get a cat.

Gassho,

Lee

[Liang]

Neo,

I'd like to thank you for raising the questions you have and sharing your struggles of trying to make sense of all it in your head. The response you've gotten have been really helpful to me. I too constantly do philosophical juggling in my head and my mind loves to analyze, create theories and meta-theories. I want to get an A on the exam and a pat of the back from the professor; it's what my mind does best. When I started Zen I sat down and wrote down and numbered list of what I "knew" to be true, Descarte's First Meditations style. (I should probably throw that away!)

So thanks for you questions and your courage. Maybe together we'll start a philosopher's anonymous chapter here at the sangha.

Gassho, Fred

[Jundo]

An old Zen story ...

There is a Zen story that tells of a university professor of Philosophy who comes to visit a famous Zen master. While the master is serving tea, the professor begins talking about all the things he knows of Zen and its principles, Existentialism and Positivism. The master, who remains quiet throughout the time that the professor is speaking, keeps pouring tea until it overflows the cup. Even then, he keeps on pouring. Seeing this strange, irrational act, the professor asks the master to stop pouring, as the cup is unable to hold any more and the overflowing tea is just wasted. Only then the master replies, “Exactly. You are like this cup; you are full of ideas. You come and ask for teaching, but your cup is full; I can't put anything in. Before I can teach you, you'll have to empty your cup.”

Some comments on a version of this story by our friend Nonin of Nebraska Zen Center ...

http://www.prairiewindzen.org/emptying_your_cup.html

Gassho, J