ADD, Practice, Trying Without Trying - How do you do it?

[Shokai]

_/\_
Thank you Raf
gassho, Shokai

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[Nengyo]

What a wonderful thread. Lots of great advice and insight.

I too suffer from diagnosed ADD, so if you have any questions on my coping/non-coping techniques feel free to PM me. I've gotten quite used to it as both a graduate student and a zen student (don't get me wrong, I'm not setting the world on fire with my studies or zen practice, but I'm surviving)

Metta and Gassho to all the great practitioners in this thread!

[Mp]

I know this space well. Like having something lodge in your throat and you can't spit it out. I have been to many centers, sat with many different teachers, in many different styles. Japanese Rinzai. Korean Rinzai, Soto Rinzai mix. Hindu Advaita Vedanta, just to name a few. I was convinced that I knew something. That I was a breath away from something. A moment away from something.
So I was looking. Trying to find that one teaching, that one expression, that one Thing that will make it all click. And you know what? It was exhausting. Every place I went had their own rules and very strong views about what is real practice, what is enlightenment, what is Truth, and according to them, I was doing something wrong. And, of course I believed them. And tried and tried. Then one day, I just couldn't go on. I realized, in tears actually, that I was fooling myself. I didn't know jack S**t. I didn't understand a single thing.
Everything I ever read, everything I ever heard was like water being poured into a cup with thousand and one holes in it.
I was tried of the spiritual games. The robes, the names, the whole show. Every place had different costumes it was like a never ending Halloween party. I just couldn't go on with the game.
In tears, and completely broken down, I decided to sit. And it was beautiful. I wasn't searching for anything. I didn't want anything. I just sat.
Just let the sitting take care of itself. When "I" is there searching, looking trying to get something, it causes so much unneeded suffering and struggles. But, in just one instant in which we can simply throw ourselves out. Throw away expectations, throw away ideas of what mediation should and should not give us, then we will be able to experience life as it is. Not as we want it. Not as we expect it. But as it is. The "Me" who is searching, who is struggling, who is trying to get something, that "I" that "Me" for one moment put it aside and see if any struggle remains. How is this moment before "you" say anything about it? How is that different from Now?

Please forgive these words. As I do not mean to tell anyone about what is practice and what is not practice. Just sharing some of my very insignificant experiences.


In Gassho

Beautifully said seiryu ... thank you for this.

Gassho
Shingen

[Tiwala]

Hi, I still don't get it, but I've managed to think about what I think my problem is.

Due to various causes and conditions, not limited to ADD, I've found myself pushing, pushing, pushing, never giving up, always facing life head on. True, i get wounded, but i force myself to embrace this as well, even if i squirm. This is true for almost everything I do. Everything I do involves a great deal of effort, and to drop all that, I think, is immensely scary. It's like being thrown into a dark well, not knowing if there's some water to catch my fall.

I feel like, and firmly believe, I should always be doing my best because people depend on me, and I'm afraid of even letting my guard down a little bit. I can't just sit around and do nothing. That is, to me, equivalent to being useless, irrelevant and a leech off of society. I feel like I should always be doing something more, achieving more, pushing more. I am never ever satisfied, and I actively try to never be satisfied. The world is on fire, after all... gotta save as many people as possible.

But, here's the catch. I find immense happiness from sacrificing myself like this. I don't really care if I get hurt, or a, thrown into hell, or forced to do the most horrifyingly boring task ever, going through great lengths to do things, as long as I know that the pain has meaning. And I find meaning in the service of others (ideally speaking, of course its not always the case. I am no saint)

I don't know how to reconcile my restlesssness to do things with radical non-seeking. To me, restlessness, the flood of thoughts, the rush, the dukkha, samsara itself...all of it is both pain and happiness. It can't be any other. I.e., I just can't let go of seeking more because it is precisely all that drives the good and peace in me. It sounds so much like what everyone here talks about (nirvana is samsara, nirvana is samsara) but the flavour, the intensity and gravity I feel doesn't seem to correspond and I'm perplexed.

I know some people find great peace, compassion and joy in this practice, but I'm really starting to doubt whether this is really something I can do. I've had this doubt for awhile, but of course, its really too early to decide. Moreover, I have a feeling that what I think is true and what people here think is true... its really just the same thing in different pacakges. In fact, the truth is precisely in my doing. That's why I'm still here, struggling.

But please, how does all this fit into the mystery of shikantaza?

Should I just let go of letting go?


Gassho, Ben

[Ricky Ramos]

Tiwala, I also have ADDH. After reading some of my postings I can even feel my ADDH through them. For that I appreciate my Sangha here and them being so accepting and ptient of me. As much as I would like to say something, I believe everyone else has said it all. The only thing that I can do is sit with you- even from afar- and send Metta to you. Gassho.

[Tiwala]

Also, I know he's more attune to rinzai, and Jundo knows I'm a big fan of their intensity, and has been very very nice in looking for centers here for me , but that's another story and not really that important....anyway

But master Huangbo once said that Ananda, having a very very good heart, was still deluded or along those lines. A good heart does not necessarily translate to true insight... and I'm kind of anxious about this. Why? Because I'm afraid that what I'm doing is not right. . . Helping others, working my ass off...is it right? All these questions, where do I put them when I sit? I can't put them aside either... but then Zen master Seung Sahn said that if you attach to the hwadu(the questions, basically) you wont get enlightened. I like to hold onto things, knowing full well that they will fade. I don't particularly want to drop them, they'll drop on their own. Why can't I enjoy a thought while it lasts? Is that such a crime?

As you can see, the questions are never gone.... my ADD always makes me doubt. I learned through my own experience that just doing it does way more good than waiting for an answer... ut how can sitting be of any good to me? I know its not good for anything, but it feels bad for me.

Gassho, Ben

[MyoHo]

Ben,

reading your posts I keep getting the feeling there must be some practical solution for your problem. In the last of the Rakusu video series by Taigu, a person is mentioned that just could not sit and still wanted to practice so this person made one rakusu after another as his practice. That idea kinda stuck with me because practice apparently extends beyond even sitting in certain cases. I'm no teacher so it's not my place to go there and tell you what to do with this but still, thinking of you this keeps coming into my mind.

In an attempt to stick with you and at least try to comfort you a bit, some thoughts from an extremely deluded fellow student:

Just sit and let Buddha do the work. It's hard. There will be good days and bad days and good days again and that is true for anyone here. Have you tried to sit and just listen to the world? Every time you doubt or get scared, turn your attention outside and listen to the cars go by or the rumor of people on the street. Just sit and listen. Open a door or a window and just sit and listen.

Sounds like you are hoping to reach a mystery wonderland of peace and quiet and I can only try to understand how exhausting it all must be for you. Count small victories in the practical sense and forget stuff like truth, samadhi, samsara and nirvana. So you know, it doesn't ring my bell either you know. Get practical with it and remember, every time you are sitting, every time you show up at the zafu and pay attention, work with what is given you to work with, that is the goal reached already. Today not so good? What is good/ no so good? Try again later or tomorrow.

Probably not very helpful, but it coming from a sincere wish you find a workable way to keep practicing.


Gassho

E.

[Dosho]

Ben,

I know you are looking for answers, but I don't think you'll find them, at least not on your present course. Shikantaza may not be right for you, that's true, but I think the only way you can know for sure is if you commit to sitting every day for a week, two weeks, etc. And if you can find way to sit every day for a month, without any latching on to any thoughts of what your practice is getting you or what questions it will answer, perhaps you'll know if this path is where you should be.

Drop EVERYTHING and sit. I don't think I can say it more plainly than that.

Regardless, I wish you well and hope you find a way that feels right.

Gassho,
Dosho

[Seiryu]

Hi, I still don't get it, but I've managed to think about what I think my problem is.

Due to various causes and conditions, not limited to ADD, I've found myself pushing, pushing, pushing, never giving up, always facing life head on. True, i get wounded, but i force myself to embrace this as well, even if i squirm. This is true for almost everything I do. Everything I do involves a great deal of effort, and to drop all that, I think, is immensely scary. It's like being thrown into a dark well, not knowing if there's some water to catch my fall.

I feel like, and firmly believe, I should always be doing my best because people depend on me, and I'm afraid of even letting my guard down a little bit. I can't just sit around and do nothing. That is, to me, equivalent to being useless, irrelevant and a leech off of society. I feel like I should always be doing something more, achieving more, pushing more. I am never ever satisfied, and I actively try to never be satisfied. The world is on fire, after all... gotta save as many people as possible.

But, here's the catch. I find immense happiness from sacrificing myself like this. I don't really care if I get hurt, or a, thrown into hell, or forced to do the most horrifyingly boring task ever, going through great lengths to do things, as long as I know that the pain has meaning. And I find meaning in the service of others (ideally speaking, of course its not always the case. I am no saint)

I don't know how to reconcile my restlesssness to do things with radical non-seeking. To me, restlessness, the flood of thoughts, the rush, the dukkha, samsara itself...all of it is both pain and happiness. It can't be any other. I.e., I just can't let go of seeking more because it is precisely all that drives the good and peace in me. It sounds so much like what everyone here talks about (nirvana is samsara, nirvana is samsara) but the flavour, the intensity and gravity I feel doesn't seem to correspond and I'm perplexed.

I know some people find great peace, compassion and joy in this practice, but I'm really starting to doubt whether this is really something I can do. I've had this doubt for awhile, but of course, its really too early to decide. Moreover, I have a feeling that what I think is true and what people here think is true... its really just the same thing in different pacakges. In fact, the truth is precisely in my doing. That's why I'm still here, struggling.

But please, how does all this fit into the mystery of shikantaza?

Should I just let go of letting go?


Gassho, Ben

If I may be so bold to say. It seems to me that you are over thinking this. Which is what we all do at some point. "Should I just let go of letting go?"
No, let go of the one who is doing the letting go.

Sounds all fancy and Zen like. But no, its really simple. In my very immature understanding. What this practice is pointing to, is that when you sit, don't bring yourself into it.

What does that mean. We get so caught up in our mental activity that it has become our identity. So we tend to bring that with us in everything we do. When we sit, we tend to bring our entire history, our ideologies, our ideas of who we think we are into the picture. Really try it. Sit. Just sit.
Really just sit. Don't add anything. Every time a thought comes up, "this is not for me" "How does this all fit in?" etc. Gently leave it aside. Anything that comes up leave it aside, and try to allow yourself to just be with what is.
This is, in my view, the most powerful koan we will ever face. Because it is not a koan from a book. It is the koan of our very being. This is not something that one can figure out intellectually, it is something that we must dive into.

Who sits? Who is having the difficulties? The body is in a certain posture. Is the body having the difficulties? The mind is jumping about. Is the mind having the difficulties? What are we adding to our present situation that is making this sense of difficulty?

Just sit. Leave everything aside, just for one instant, and see if any struggle remains.

Forgive me. I've been commenting a lot on issues better left for people with my experiences. But I do hope it can be of a little help.

In Gassho

[Jishin]

There is one way to sit and 10,000 ways to sit and no way fits all. Let the Way sit you and have a sit. The ADHD brain is perfect as it is. No need to go anywhere else. :-)

Gassho, John

[Tiwala]

To be honest, I'm not really particularly looking for peace and quiet. Neither am I especially keen on being happy. This is probably not gonna last, like all other things, but that's ok.

I'm just trying very hard to do the next best thing I can do, with how small I know. Its just that I feel forced to drop my thinking, and I'm wondering if its ok to just let it run wild.... as it has always been. I'm wondering if its ok to to be intense, to be extremely motivated, to fall but keep moving forward against all odds, to think, to feel! There is some obstruction. I've lived my life like this for so long, people seem to clear their minds, to become placid, still, equanimous, whatever that means....but more and more I'm starting to realize that this is simply not possible for me unless under some exhausted circumstances or intentional mental gymnastics, which, if I understand correctly, is not shikantaza!

I sat for multiple times yesterday and the day before. 15-30 mins in length even. My thoughts kept on going all the same... not trying to change anything. Sitting, getting up, its like I never started or ended meditation. Its all the same... and it feels nice, not that I'm trying to make it feel nice, it just did. I just let my thoughts break free... I followed them, engaged them, when it happens, i analyze them, but sooner or later they just leave me. I have maybe a few seconds of silence then they come rushing again, as they've always done. I still sometimes wake up early in the morning from a restless mind like right now when I'm "slightly" excited haha.

Shikantaza is really good for nothing, I understand that much.... but if I just let shikantaza and daily life meet, then I'm ok. This is still Buddha anyway, right? Walking, sitting, standing, peeing, pooping, eating, living, dying, THINKING, breathing, shouting, flying, distressing, wanting, falling, doing... no good no bad, simultaneously there and not, doesn't really matter... get it? I don't, but right now I don't really care. There are people out there who need my help and I am going to give my life to them wholly, completely, in a bang or no bang, just doing the next best thing I can do...

I guess I'm just looking for validation...?

Gassho,
Ben

[Jishin]

Some statistics say that up to 10% of children and 5% of adults have some form of ADHD such as inattentive type, hyperactive type or combined type. It would be a very safe bet to say that 3% of Soto Zen practitioners have ADHD. Not sure what they do when they sit, if anything.

Gassho, John

[MyoHo]

I sat for multiple times yesterday and the day before. 15-30 mins in length even. My thoughts kept on going all the same... not trying to change anything. Sitting, getting up, its like I never started or ended meditation. Its all the same... and it feels nice, not that I'm trying to make it feel nice, it just did. I just let my thoughts break free... I followed them,

See? You are doing it you busy Buddha you! That is all there is to it m8! Now try to leave all expectations and hopes of impressive changes and cool results at the door of the room you sit in. Cross the treshold, take a deep breath exhale saying "haaaaaaaaaa" and leave it there. If most of us are like a glass of muddy water, your mind is maybe more like a bucket of frogs. They too quiet down in time. It just takes a bit more time, patience and a little bit of faith your mind too can quiet down. You can do it! ( Not religious faith but a kind of trust is what you are doing.) Try to stop comparing what you experience with what others say about their own practice in books e.g. It's all interesting and there is much to be learned in books but you cant learn how to swim from a book, now can you? Every one is unique, that's the practice you know, to embrace what makes you "you". Didn't your mom tell you never to put on other peoples glasses? They are always wrong for your own eyes. Find your own glasses! And like myself , it will take a lifetime and maybe more do do it. Great, no?

I'm convinced you can do it!

Gassho

Enkyo

[Tiwala]

Phew.

Ok.

I guess this is all there is to it!

http://lookingcloser.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Jeffs-Just-Do-IT-Campaign.jpg

^me once my break is over. exciting! despite not looking so much like it.

Gassho,
Ben

[Myozan Kodo]