ADD, Practice, Trying Without Trying - How do you do it?

[Tiwala]

Hi all,

I have ADD and it's immensely difficult for me to pay attention. In Jundo's first video in the Beginner Talks, there was a blender and it was very, very loud. That is my mind day in and day out and it's rarely quiet, no matter what I do. Some days, when I think about sad things, it usually slows down, so I sometimes intentionally think about sad things. When I'm happy, it gets really, really fast and excited and I lose track of many things, my body, my responsibilities etc. Right now, it's difficult to try and write what I want to say because my thoughts are moving by so fast and I have little time to recognize that they're even there, much less type them down.

Day in and day out, my life consists of great effort to try and pay attention and get the job done. I often have to go to great lengths of dialogues with myself to keep myself doing things I should be doing.

"Ben, you're doing so and so, now you're doing this, you should be doing that next... don't forget to do this, so and so"

Now my question is if there are other people there with ADD.... how do you practice everyday? Sitting is so difficult, mostly very boring.... can I keep my dialogue? I need some anchor... shikantaza is no anchor... this sense of I just gets thrown about like in a tornado and I end up as scattered as when I begin sitting. Breathing is sooooo boring as well. Should I just force myself?

But then forcing yourself, trying... how do I put in great, great effort without... putting any effort? This feels like a koan... how do I solve my koan? I can't do it sitting... right? or

I'm so confused and scattered...

Gassho,
Ben

[ZenHarmony]

how do I put in great, great effort without... putting any effort?

The way I see it (and really, I know nothing about koans), there's only 3 things to do:

1. Commit yourself to your practice.

2. Be patient with yourself.

Hmmmmm, forgot the third point!

Gassho,

Lisa

2.

[Tiwala]

It's so hard to be patient with myself.

Gassho,
Ben

[Myoku]

Hello Ben,
thank you for being so open to your Sangha. I dont know anything about ADD, so my comment is rather about some other things you said,
hope it helps though,

Bein patient with oneself is vital. I tend to push and hit myself all day, but this leads nowhere. Like Lisa said, being patient is a key that unlocks many doors, be patient with yourself. Forgive yourself. Accept yourself. Play with the cards you have at every moment. You are ok, accept to be like you are. Move from where you are, one step at a time.

If watching the breath is boring, than I would recommend to go with this. Yes, Shikantaza is without anything to hold on, but if you feel uncomfortable with this, my experience is to go with watching or even counting the breath. It hopefully leads you to Shikantaza anyway, but be patient, its not happening in a day or two. We're not in a hurry, things take there time.

Thank you for your practice and Gassho
Myoku

[Kantai]

Hi Tiwala!
I do not have ADD, but I have a hard time to concentrate at times.There is an exercise where you measure your breath also. I've got it from Thich Nhat Hanh. Counting slowly during inbreaths and outbreaths. I do this sometimes when even counting the breaths are to hard for me. After some minutes of measuring the breaths I go back to counting, then following the breath and then just sitting, shikantaza. It's like a stair I go down and up on. This is only my take on this and I do not know if it's the best way.

Gassho
Edward

[Hans]

Dear Ben,

we all come from completely different positions and situations regarding our physical hardware aka our bodies, emotional and mental imprints etc. The practise of Zen is open to all because it is not in opposition to this life, this universe/reality/God, but is a conscious and dynamic expression of it.

What do I mean by this? You can never be left out of this practise, you can never do it wrong or right in terms of comparisons. All we can ever do is work with what we have to the best of our ability.

Whether we are really doing that is something only we ourselves can answer.

Sadly I have next to know knowledge of ADD but can inly guess that a lower sugar intake, more physical exercise and less multi-task distractions throughout the day might benefit your Zen practise.


Gassho,


Hans Chudo Mongen

[Kokuu]

Hi Ben

I don't have ADD but do have a condition which affects the adrenal glands and that can often lead to sitting feeling 'wired' with the body buzzing and thoughts racing. At times like those I find that doing shikantaza leads to quickly being swept away by the turbulence of thoughts and having an anchor like the breath is a better way to practice. Meditation can often feel boring. That is okay.

Interesting you say that thinking about sad things slows your mind down as in Tibetan practice one of the antidotes to a racing mind is contemplating your own death and the death of others close to you.

Other advice I would offer is:

1. Sit little and often and build up gradually to longer periods.
2. Rest your attention in your hara centre/dan tien rather than your head
3. Spend some time becoming aware of your body and posture when you begin. This can be very grounding. It can also be good to return to this if you go completely off track. I use Reggie Ray's 10 points of awareness for sitting meditation - become aware of where your legs touch the ground (two points), your bottom cheeks on the cushion (two points), hands in your lap, your upright spine, both shoulders (two points), head resting slightly downwards and eyes relaxed looking lightly ahead and down.

Note - points 2 and 3 are not part of shikantaza as we practice it at Treeleaf.

Gassho
Andy

[MyoHo]

Hi Ben,

I read somewhere you can use the sentence "how does it feel?" as a practice somtimes. I say use because it is not a verbal mantra you repeat over and over. It's asking in the way you search inward, observe and try to sense. A wordless question you ask yourself without any words but with your gut. Try to feel what you feel at that very moment, any moment and watch it as an observer. Try to communicate with this unrest of the mind. This way you can change this uniqueness in you and learn to not perceive it as a foe but a useful tool in your practice. In my mind, shikantaza is not trying to do nothing or learn a new trick. Even not doing is "doing not-doing" or think "not thinking" like Dogen said. Observe your feelings about your troubles with concentration. Observe yourself sitting and all that comes with it, without sticking to it or thinking of it as something you must get rid of someday. Taigu said something about this in a vid. pointing to the option of communicating with something and then unwrapping it ( that was about pain but should apply to things like this too?). It's about acceptance, you know.

Hope this helps?

Gassho

E.

[Shonin]

Having ADD myself I can see a bit where you're coming from. Smaller blocks of zazen to begin with is my suggestion. Once you can sit for just 5-10 minutes then increase another 5 . work your way up. For me, I've also noticed that if you don't practice regularly it's more difficult when you come back to the practice. So, if say you work up for 20-25 min. then stop sitting for a few months you will have difficulties with longer sits again. It takes time for everyone. So, yes, you do have to be patient. Don't look for results, just sit.
Dave _/\_

[Jishin]

I have some difficulties with attention and focus that have improved over time. Breaking up Zazen over smaller blocks of time has helped. Hyperfocusing on watching the breath or counting also has helped over time to slow down the brain and eventually letting go of any anchors when sitting. :-)

Gassho, John

[Kyonin]

In my humble opinion and limited experience, ADD can be controlled by practicing discipline everyday, in most activities.

Shut down distractions when studying, working or doing stuff. If you wash the dishes, focus on that. No music, no TV. Pay attention to details of the activity at hand.

If you are reading, no Internet and no music.

When walking, focus on the path.

Bring your mind to where you are now. Like Tich Nhat Hanh says, bring your mind home. And do it by small periods.

With discipline and patience, this little practice will permeate other activities, like zazen.

But as the other wise Treeleafers said before, be patient. Controlling our band of monkeys doesn't happen overnight.

Oh, and I would also work this out with the help of my doctor.

Gassho,

Kyonin

[Dosho]

Ben,

Thank you for writing your story and being so open about it. I have had ADD since I was 16 (I'm 38 now) and have taken medication for much of that time. I don't know if you medicate, but if you do you are probably well aware that it isn't a cure for it. Neither is zazen. It is medicine we must regularly take to keep us on track.

I am only a priest in training, so please take what I say as the advice of a worker on the factory floor and not a foreman! If you can, try to let go of things like keeping lists of feelings, saying that made you feel better, and those thoughts which hold you down. It is so hard to do, but I have slowly begun after several years of practice. a calm those winds of inattention. How? By just sitting and allowing it to hit me all at once like a wave.

None of it is easy. When I first started sitting I found myself swaying back and forth while I sat! It took some time, but eventually it stopped. But I still have moment of fidgeting to this day. That never goes completely away, in my experience. Results will vary and you need to give it time. Commit to sit for a period for a period of time: 5 minutes, 10 minutes...1 minute if that's all you can do. And don't try to stop the feelings...let them flow! It can be scary, like a tidal wave hitting you. But on the other side you feel better.

A saying I saw the other day: "Smooth Seas Do Not Make Good Sailors". I believe that is true.

I have more to say, but have to get my son ready for his Halloween party in an hour! But, you can send me a private message if you want (or find a time to Skype?). Otherwise, I will post again soon. Please be good to yourself, ok? We are always here!

Gassho,
Dosho

Hi all,

I have ADD and it's immensely difficult for me to pay attention. In Jundo's first video in the Beginner Talks, there was a blender and it was very, very loud. That is my mind day in and day out and it's rarely quiet, no matter what I do. Some days, when I think about sad things, it usually slows down, so I sometimes intentionally think about sad things. When I'm happy, it gets really, really fast and excited and I lose track of many things, my body, my responsibilities etc. Right now, it's difficult to try and write what I want to say because my thoughts are moving by so fast and I have little time to recognize that they're even there, much less type them down.

Day in and day out, my life consists of great effort to try and pay attention and get the job done. I often have to go to great lengths of dialogues with myself to keep myself doing things I should be doing.

"Ben, you're doing so and so, now you're doing this, you should be doing that next... don't forget to do this, so and so"

Now my question is if there are other people there with ADD.... how do you practice everyday? Sitting is so difficult, mostly very boring.... can I keep my dialogue? I need some anchor... shikantaza is no anchor... this sense of I just gets thrown about like in a tornado and I end up as scattered as when I begin sitting. Breathing is sooooo boring as well. Should I just force myself?

But then forcing yourself, trying... how do I put in great, great effort without... putting any effort? This feels like a koan... how do I solve my koan? I can't do it sitting... right? or

I'm so confused and scattered...

Gassho,
Ben

[Nameless]

Ben,

I'd say a good first step here is to see that ADD is only an attribute, not who you are. Like all words, it is but a label that we attach to something intangible. Besides that, I would agree with the Sangha that shorter periods of zazen could be beneficial for your at first. I would also recommend Jundo's intsta-zazen technique as well, and fiddle with mindfulness. It's also important to accept and let go. That strategy has helped me immensely. Accept and let go. If you experience racing thoughts, boredom or distress during zazen; sit with it. Neither push it away or pull it toward you. The mind can be like a stormy sky. When we wish it wasn't, the storm only grows stronger. When we accept the clouds, they no longer effect us and overtime they will dissipate, and really above them the there's always been the clear blue. Peace and clarity are with you this very moment, they are just obscured. Anyway, just thought I'd share and I wish you the best my friend!

Gassho, John

[shikantazen]

I had trouble initially doing the "do nothing" just sitting shikantaza as well. It felt so confusing and I wasn't sure if it was working for me. With an object your meditation becomes so simple and easy to do. With shikantaza there is lot of confusion and uncertainty to deal with. From what I have seen shikantaza is taught in two major ways. The kind of do nothing and also the other kind (Taigu teaches this and there are other popular teachers who teach this way) where you simply observe/be-aware-of/be-with what's happening in your sitting (in your environment, body, mind) without manipulating it. I found that to be a bit more stable practice and easier to follow. But after a few months with that somehow I was drawn to just sitting again. Not that one is better than the other. If you feel a bit confused initially, you can always sit in the above way. It is best to PM the teachers (Taigu and Jundo) to get their suggestions as well.

Gassho,
Sam

[Stacy]

Hello Ben,

You say sitting is "boring" and breathing is "boring". Might it help to alter your perspective a bit on what is boring?

I think what Kyonin suggested might help with that, to have you focus on doing one thing rather than many things at once. In that, you can try to see something "boring" as rather "peaceful," "relaxing," etc. And then maybe, "it is what it is".

Boredom is just a state of mind.

I don't know if my words will be helpful for your particular case, but it looks like there's a lot of good advice in this thread and I wish you all the best!

Gassho,
Stacy