If everything has Buddha-nature...

[Jundo]

Also I don't think our teachers would ever say, NOT to take your practice out to the trenches. I have donated 5 large boxes of food and what will be about 400$ to local charity because of my participation here. I don't think anyone is suggesting to hide from other's suffering. Someone keeps insisting we get dirty.

Gassho

That right.

By the way, very good to hear of the good effect this Path seems to be having for you.

Gassho, J

[Daitetsu]

Hi Enkyo,

I don't know if I totally get what you want to say, communication is a tricky thing, so please excuse me if I get something wrong what you said:

IMHO Zazen is the home from which we act.
Our practice almost naturally leads us to outreach and to help.
However, you still have to act and make decisions in this world of samsara - we cannot say "I practice, everything else will go alone from there."
It's up to you to come up with a way to "get it out there" as you said.
You and I are not zen, we just practice zen.

If a butterfly's flapping wings can create a storm elsewhere, guess what even a simple act of kindness and love can do. Think about the chain reaction this can create.
Sitting won't solve the problems of the world, but as Camus said: "One must imagine Sisyphus happy."

It never ends, but putting our heads in the sand is too easy.
Look at what people like Bernie Glassman do! He is truly inspiring. And there are others out there.


BTW: What do you mean by "the more talented ones in our sangha"? This practice is not about being talented if you ask me.

Gassho,

Timo

[Myosha]

Thank you.


Gassho,
Edward

[sittingzen]

Taigu:


Jundo:

How could I ever leave the culprits seat? Being alive means kicking up dust for myself and others. We say not two, but if I hit my head you wont get a bump on your head. All we can do is trying to keep the dust in check but for whom sake? My own? What use is this to all of you out there?

That just may be what is bothering me. We sit, work hard and talk Dharma but I'm missing THE GETTING IT OUT THERE! Do we really only sit for ourselves, for our own enlightenment and training/ learning ourselves in how WE deal with this world for the short while we are actually here? Maybe some of the more talented ones in our sangha will reach that certain point someday. Great! But to what end? What use?

What do I tell that hungry homeless guy at the street corner or that orphan girl dying of cancer all alone in the hospital? What do I effectively do for them, when sitting hours and hours working on "me, myself and I" in my little shed in the back of my garden?

That's what is missing. Self sacrifice, compassion and love for all other beings IN ACTION. Living Zen, out there in the the trenches of Samsara for the sake of you without thinking of "me".

Saying they are not two but one is too easy. I'm lacking and found the question:

HOW?

Please be gentle, this is now keeping me awake at night ( not kidding)

Gassho

E.

Hi Enkyo,

I think Jundo's response is ripe full of gems for contemplation. I will be revisiting his comment daily.

Your comment is so timely. Many of my less, for lack of better words, "spiritual friends", joke with me at times about the act of zazen. What use is sitting there when strife surrounds us, they ask? You're not "doing" anything, they say! Go out and help others!

I tell you, Enkyo, I may have not learned much. But through personal experience, sitting and our practice brings us to our original nature. It really does. The mental chatter, the junk, the desires, the hatred, the jealousy, the anger. We learn to recognize them as thoughts, perhaps roaring waves, and instead of surfing on the waves, we choose to sit on the shore and observe and allow them to dissipate. And that to me is so powerful. With regards to the essence of your post, it has made me much more "raw". I am much more in-tune with my surroundings, my own suffering and those around me. It's much easier to help others when you recognize your own delusions.

Many want zazen to reveal an earth-shattering revelation. They presume it will enable them to be a mystic or a sage, of some sort. They endeavor for the big, "E"-ENLIGHTENMENT. Why seek for what we already are?

Dogen said that enlightenment is just intimacy with all things. My personal issue is that I tend to create constructs of what and how things should be. Zazen needs to be a certain way..compassion needs to look a certain way. When I drop the constructs, everything (including the bad stuff), is just the way it is supposed to be.

[Jundo]

Timo and Sam,

Thank you for saying so, shorter and sweeter than I managed.

Gassho, J

[Ishin]

Hi Enkyo,




BTW: What do you mean by "the more talented ones in our sangha"? This practice is not about being talented if you ask me.

Gassho,

Timo

Well said LimoLama; thanks for catching that one.

[Juki]

I tell you, Enkyo, I may have not learned much.

The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know. Eventually, maybe I will learn enough to realize that I know nothing at all. Until that time, I will keep sitting. After that time, should it ever arrive, I will keep sitting.

Gassho.
William

[Mp]

The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know. Eventually, maybe I will learn enough to realize that I know nothing at all. Until that time, I will keep sitting. After that time, should it ever arrive, I will keep sitting.

Gassho.
William

Wonderful words William, you speak my language.

Gassho
Shingen

[alan.r]

Thanks everyone, Enkyo, Taigu, Jundo, others, for this thread. What a great thread!

Wow, William. Wow, Sam.

I love that Dogen quote, Enkyo. And I've felt many of the things you've felt about why practicing - what does it do for others? What about this: a small touch, a smile, some warmth, or thoughtfulness, or listening, or attention - that's it. Or this: knowing one is angry, sad, frustrated, knowing that, recognizing it, not taking it out on anyone else. That. It doesn't have to be big charity or pity or world-changing-anything, but just being there with yourself honestly makes the world better for others, even if it seems totally imperceptible. Or that's my take. And it's my take only sometimes, when I'm not busy beating myself up or being self-pitying or thinking how can I change the world or thinking how great I am or thinking how bad I am - when I drop all that crap and just go, Man, I'm lonely today, or Man, so glad to be around people today, or Man, so glad to be sitting in front of this wall, thank you, thank you. That's all. Not easy. David Foster Wallace would call it real freedom: "sacrificing for others in myriad petty, little unsexy ways every day," and if we choose not to do that, okay, but then we're just part of the "rat race...with the constant gnawing sense of having had and lost some infinite thing." It's that rat race that is problem: never truly being happy, never truly being depressed or sad, whatever, stuck in our "skull-sized kingdoms," tricking ourselves, getting ourselves into our little traps, because our little traps feel just so important and precious - I know because that's how they feel to me.

Anyway, hope you're well.

gassho,
alan

[MyoHo]

Thank you all for you response and I now get the feeling my post has been poorly formulated. Can't do anything about that and I promised someone never to try to safe face afterwards. All your comments are true and reflect all that we share in our wonderful practice. So wonderful, I often wonder how to bring it even further.

LimoLama: With talented people I mean some of us will someday will become great teachers ( and already are) and that at least is a clear and visible way of how to take the teachings out there and benefit all who want to join us on our journey of discovery.

Clark: Good to hear you too see and feel the fruits of practice in our daily lives. At some point you may feel there is even more we can do with the insights and teachings we have so readily available to us at any time at our sangha.

Sittingzen: You are quite right. There is no earth shattering experience and if one goes in search of it, chances are ones mind is just not ready yet and it fades after a wile. A memory that leaves someone craving for more. Gradually learning to see the beauty and greatness, the sacred in our daily lives and the potential that is within us, is all one can wish for.

Not looking to become a saint and no, don't have the makings of one. But I truly want to one day be able to say sitting made me a more mature human. Gentle, slow to anger and quick to forgive.

My questioning was not an attack or an attempt to belittle in a frustrated way. Our practice is awesome, this sangha is awesome and you know me well enough by now to know that kind of talk or intention would never be heard from me.

I was talking about teaching someone how to fish or give someone a fishing rod instead of that one time fish. The acidic reaction to an honest question however, leaves me with a few pebbles to chew on.
Gassho

Peter

[Jundo]

As I hope folks know, I am a big supporter of "engaged" projects and charity work as a way to help our fellow Sentient Beings.

But Buddhism really was not focused on charitable work for much of its history. That "compassion" and "saving sentient beings" = "social programs" and such is a popular misconception among many modern Western Buddhists. There were always people during its history who engaged in various civic and charitable projects, but the interest in charitable work really first began in the 19th century because of inspiration from and competition with Christian missionaries who came to many Asian countries then and (for their own reasons) engaged in charitable work such as building schools and hospitals. The Buddhists suddenly felt that they should do the same. Other modernizers of Buddhism continued the trend.

However, the fact is that, for most of its history. Buddhists believed that Samsara was truly a lost cause, to be turned from and escaped (into the Pure Land of the next life, Nirvana or at least into a monastery). One could cure "Dukkha", but not really the underlining grittiness of Samsara that was the cause of Dukkha (e.g., one can transcend the Dukkha of sickness and death, but not sickness and death themselves). One "saved Sentient Beings" by helping them attain Enlightenment or to reach the Pure Land, rather than by feeding them (and even "Enlightenment" was not for everybody, because some folks' Karma was just that they had to have a hard life and that was their lot, maybe hoping for a better opportunity in a life to come). "Engaged Buddhism", with folks like Bernie Glassman, is really a pretty modern idea. Buddha and Dogen never opened a soup kitchen or a clinic as their central focus. Life was pretty hard and gritty in ancient societies like India, China, Korea and Japan ... and the monks tended to live in their monasteries without much they could do (even if they wanted to) to solve the gross social inequalities and famines and wars and sickness outside their doors.

There were many exceptions however, such as these noted fellows.

Master Fajing:

Anytime and anywhere there was a disaster
or famine, Venerable Master Fajing was present
to provide food and relief supplies. One time the
famine was so bad that thousands were dying
from hunger. The situation was desperate and
miserable. With great compassion, he went
every place seeking donations and help, convincing
the government to release the emergency
grain reserve to feed the people. Unfortunately,
the number of hunger victims far exceeded the
quantity of food supplies. In the end, Venerable
Master Fajing decided to let the hungry people
consume parts of his body to survive. What an
incomparably fearless and compassionate spirit
he displayed!

Master Zhiyi “The Wise Man”:

Venerable Master Zhiyi was known for
releasing fish and turtles into many “rescue
ponds” he had built. He was also known to be a
devoted philanthropist.
In his biography, the following was noted:
“One time he received sixty types of different
offerings. Out of compassion and respect, he
immediately gave them away to the needy in the
hope that their happiness and welfare could be
enhanced and that the country and society as a
whole could prosper.”

Master Fachun:

During a famine, Venerable Master Fachun,
disguising himself in lay clothes, worked as a
laborer in villages and towns, and donated all his
wages to the poor and needy. He frequently
volunteered to clean the toilets and remove feces
and excrement. When the road was damaged, he
himself would undertake the reconstruction work.
He also encouraged neighbors and residents to
level and smooth out bumpy and dangerous
roads for the convenience of travelers.

Zen Master Tetsugan Doko:

During the Tokugawa Shogunate period in
Japan, Zen Master Tetsugan discovered that one of
the main reasons why Buddhism was not as
prevalent as it should have been was the shortage
of comprehensive collections of Buddhist
Tripitaka (Sutras). He vowed to raise funds to print volumes
of Buddhist sutras. After years of effort,
the amount of funds raised was close to the point
where the printing of the sutras could have been
started. Unfortunately, various disasters and calamities
hit the area and people were dying or
struggling to survive. Master Tetsugan immediately
donated his entire sutra-printing fund for
relief purposes. Later, he resumed his fundraising
activities for sutra printing. After all kinds of
difficulties and hardships, he was reaching his
goal again. But then a major flood came. Many
people were homeless and struck by diseases.
Again, he immediately donated all the money to
relieve for the flood victims. His unshakable
determination motivated him to continue his
fundraising activities despite all these setbacks.
On his third attempt, he finally accomplished his
wish to print the complete volume of Buddhist
Tripitaka.

Gassho, J

[Ishin]

That right.

By the way, very good to hear of the good effect this Path seems to be having for you.

Gassho, J

It truly is, and I would say it is more bringing back ON the path. Thank you.

[Kyonin]

The more we practice and sit, the more the universe benefits.

If I cut myself while cooking you won't get the blood nor the pain. But I become aware and mindful that there is pain and that there are people having harder times than me.

So I go out and do as much as I can for people.

Granted, no matter how hard I try, I won't end hunger or wars. But just making an old lady smile is enough. Sending help for victims of natural events and knowing that at least they will have a meal, it's enough to keep me going and doing more.

We sit and we get our heads cleared of crap so we can focus on service. We don't sit for our selfish selves. We sit for the universe.

Or at least that's how I see it.

I may be wrong, of course.

Gassho,

Kyonin

[Jinyo]

Enkyo - sometimes words get a bit snagged up here. You mentioned 'teaching someone how to fish'. I'm not sure I understand the meaning of this? Would you feel able to say a bit more. I think there may be some misunderstanding in what you were asking?

I'm not sure you were only asking about compassionate action - engaged buddhism - but you were perhaps asking about compassion in another/ but related sense? I wondered if your 'question' came from a space of questioning how we can convey to others, who are in pain, the rewards of practice? You asked what you could tell the hungry guy on the street corner.

But - I'm full of cold just now, so possibly not absorbing the many thoughts in this thread (there should be a symbol for head colds at this time of year)

Gassho

Willow

[Eika]

Hi,
I think the foundation of Enkyo's question is the distinction between self and other. When we sit, we sit for all, whether we intend to or not. When we help someone, no matter the scale, we help all. When we harm ourself, we harm all. Etc. So, do good in the world, but don't hang any Buddhism on it, that's extra.

Gassho,
Eika


Sent from tapatalk