Adyashanti's Shikantaza/True Meditation

[MyoHo]

wow, so many opinions on this one. Picking up my zafu and placing it next to John C's i think .

Oh, and in all humility dear Taigu san: YES! where are you!!!!!! (My answer to your question in the beginning of this thread.)

Gassho

Enkyo

[Andrea1974]

Listen to Jundo and Taigu. Read Dogen. Nothing else is needed in my case.

But why not challenging your view with something different? No offense but your view seems to be a little too old, not your age Since the beginning of this post I have been watching several videos of Adiashanti on youtube and plan to buy one of his books. Why not? I have my reservations about some of the things he said, especially his awakening experience, but I will never have an informed opinion on his teachings unless I dig a little deeper (BTW, I am quite selective with the books I buy).

To all those who doubt his awakening: His Zen teacher confirmed his awakening and asked him to teach and that's when he started to teach.

In his video he describes his awakening as an almost supernatural experience. I am not saying it didn't happen the way he described it, but does enlightenment really happens in a flash (a "matrix-like" experience) or is it a progressive process that brings you all the way back to where you started...here. J and T are waaaaaaaay more qualified than me to clarify this point.

(note: I like the way Steven Hagen describes what enlightenment IS NOT in his "Buddhism is not what you think”)

Sam, thanks for starting this very interesting post!

I will leave you with a beautiful quote of...well, I do not remember who ...but it sounds something like this...
"We do not read to gain any knowledge, but there is great value in confirming what we already know"

[Jinyo]

Hi Sam,

There is too much to read out there. Too many teachers. I am tired of wandering in the desert. I am too old. I think I will just sit here. Listen to fellow treeleafers. Listen to Jundo and Taigu. Read Dogen. Nothing else is needed in my case.

Gassho, John

Hi Andrea - I have a lot of sympathy for what John has written ( Taigu expresses similarly in his thread regarding this).

I can only speak for myself on this - but I recognised a while back that the copious amount of reading I do is in part a distraction from the simplicity of practice and also involves a holding back from %100 commitment. There possibly is an age element in this as well - as fascinated as I remain with the intellectual challenge of taking on new ideas there is also a huge repetition involved in this. I know for sure that the Treeleaf reading list - as it stands - is enough to keep me going for the rest of my life. I bought fifty books last year and intend to re-read and re-read because the buying of yet another book proves to me that I'm still stuck in distracting and expecting something 'new' to come along.

In the 'simplicity' of practice I ask myself 'what do I think I'm missing' and why do we fall into the delusion that we can learn from other people's stories of enlightenment?

Everything we need is right here - when Dogen spoke of the lack of necessity to travel to far dusty lands seeking enlightenment I feel we can take this on several levels.

I think I understand what John means when he says he's tired of wandering in the desert because I'm tired too

Gassho

Willow

[Taigu]

Jundo and I had many awakening experiences and ... This is not the point. To live an awakened life is the point. Any real Zen teacher will tell you that. As to tell you about these experiences, sorry guys, none of your business and certainly not mine as a teacher.

Gassho

Taigu

[Kyonin]

So much knowledge on this post.

I may be just a simple minded dude, but I think I'll just go sit.

Gassho,

Kyonin

[Nengyo]

Hey Sam, I can only speak for myself, but as many people here have stated, there are millions of teachers, gurus, systems, techniques, and styles all dedicated to achieving enlightenment, waking up, or finding inner peace. This issue is the same in Buddhism as it is in the fitness world. For instance, if you suddenly decided that you wanted to get in shape, what do you do? Crossfit, weightlifting, running, biking, swimming, martial arts, P90X, yoga, or should you train "instinctively" and figure it out yourself? The choices are overwhelming. As overwhelming as when picking a religion or meditation style.

For many people here at treeleaf, this Shikantaza is not their first taste of "exercising." Many of us practiced in other "styles" before coming here and when we found this we knew it fit for us. To continue my analogy, it is as if we were lifting weights, then went for a run and said to ourselves, man I've really been missing out on this running stuff. However, even if this is your "first" system I would recommend giving it a full and serious tryout because, here is the crux of the issue; there is nothing wrong with being a runner or weight lifter and there is also nothing wrong with a runner occasionally lifting weights or a weight lifter occasionally running. The issue at hand is that if you continually chase the next big thing, the next new system, you will never get fit and you will never get "better" at anything. I have seen thousands of weak and out of shape kids who have jumped from system to system, spending money and time chasing the next "easy way" when if they would have just stuck to a boring program in the beginning, they would have seen real results.

The same thing holds true for this practice as well. If we at treeleaf ran off chasing every idea that every new user presented, we would never get anywhere. So, as much as I like looking at youtube videos and reading new ideas, in the end I will end up "just sitting" and I will continue to "just sit" until I have sapped everything out of it (if that is possible) before moving on. That's not to say that I won't occasionally twirl around a mala for stress relief while driving, but my main effort is at zazen. And for some reason, if there ever comes a time when I need to set out on my own, I will have a strong base of shikantaza to work from.

I know my fitness analogy isn't for everyone, but I can't resist using it because I see so many similarities between people searching for spiritual enlightenment and physical enlightenment. I've watched many people endlessly worry about systems, plans, infomercials, and magical techniques, when if they had just done some hard work with a simple basic plan they would have been fit and happy already. So, I don't know much about Adyashanti's "true meditation" just like I don't know much about that "P90X" system on TV. They might both be the best thing ever. But I wouldn't know because I have a run to do and some shikantaza to knock out.

metta

[Ed]

THAT is where Taigu is at. Teach the Path not your path.

In gassho Taigu!
Ed

[Jundo]

In his video he describes his awakening as an almost supernatural experience. I am not saying it didn't happen the way he described it, but does enlightenment really happens in a flash (a "matrix-like" experience) or is it a progressive process that brings you all the way back to where you started...here. J and T are waaaaaaaay more qualified than me to clarify this point.

Man, yes, this thread has become a mountain of words. Kyonin says it best ...

So much knowledge on this post.

... I think I'll just go sit.

Yes, perhaps time to just sit, leaving Adya to Adya.

However, if I may drop a few more words on the mountain, I want to offer this for Andrea's question and other new folks ...

----------------------

Kensho experiences can be light and deep and beyond light or deep. ... HOWEVER, that does not matter because, generally [in Soto folks' typical take], we consider all such experiences as passing scenery ... vantage points ... just a visit to the wonders of the Grand Canyon. One cannot stay there, as lovely or astonishing as it is. Nice and educational place to visit ... would not, should not, could not truly live there. In fact, one can even live perfectly well never having visited the vast Canyon at all. The most important thing is to get on the bus, get on with the trip, get on with life from there. In our Soto Way, the WHOLE TRIP is Enlightenment when realized as such (that is the True "Kensho"!) ... not some momentary stop or passing scene or final destination.

... When we realize such ... every moment of the Buddha-Bus trip, the scenery out the windows (both what we encounter as beautiful and what appears ugly), the moments of good health and moments of passing illness, the highway, the seats and windows, all the other passengers on the Bus who appear to be riding with us, when we board and someday when we are let off ... the whole Trip ... is all the Buddha-Bus, all Enlightenment and Kensho, all the "destination" beyond "coming" or "going" or "getting there", when realized (Kensho'd) as such.


We also realize that this ride is very much what we make it.

---------------

Taigu: To live an awakened life is the point.

[Myozan Kodo]

Gassho

[Myosha]

"Mostly harmless." (said by Adam Douglas,famous mute)

Wonder if Adyashanti's greeting is 'BOOO!'^_^

Gassho, Edward

[Jakudo]

Jundo and I had many awakening experiences and ... This is not the point. To live an awakened life is the point. Any real Zen teacher will tell you that. As to tell you about these experiences, sorry guys, none of your business and certainly not mine as a teacher.

Gassho

Taigu

I wholeheartedly agree Taigu, an awakening experience is nothing, an awakened life is a precious gift. And also.. "The WHOLE TRIP is Enlightenment " I beleive is the truth of the matter.Thanks to you both.
Gassho, Jakudo

[Shokai]

Just to pile on the mountain! I am so looking forward to our bus trip next week this time. We will be going to the Waimea Canyon, the Grand Canyon of Hawaii on Kauai island. We were close to the Grand Canyon twenty years ago when we were in Vegas (on our honeymoon} and drove to the Hoover Dam. I wonder if Buddha will be the bus driver?

[shikantazen]

To anyone interested, here is a link of audio book of true meditation (Part 1 and 2 are the book)
Part 3 has the Guided Meditation

http://www.unlimitedboundaries.ca/2012/02/19/adyashanti-true-meditation-series/