Adyashanti's Shikantaza/True Meditation

[Oheso]

It sure wasn't!

don't understand-

[Myoku]

Well, guys,
dont be too harsh (and thats also directed towards me). I like Adyashanti a lot, though I just have not enough time to also follow his latest books; But seriously: you cannot say this is _too much_ and we _just sit_ and then go and say somewhere else how inspiring Dogen is. I mean Dogen also write a whole bunch, right, so its not about how much people tend to say or write and we not just burn all books. Anyway, I dont care if Adyashanti's approach is shikantaza from some aspect or not, he inspired my practice at some point and I'm grateful for that. If he's not inspiring you thats perfectly ok too, its not exactly the game we play here (Karate vs Judo as Jundo might say). Thank you Sam and everyone contributing, Thank you very much.
Gassho
Myoku

[Daitetsu]

Where are you?

Where are you not?

Gassho,

Timo

[shikantazen]

I feel Jundo's post is harsh on Adyashanti and doesn't reflect the truth at all.

In my opinion Adyashanti is as genuine and real as any spiritual teacher can get. I have not seen any teacher living or dead, talk so lucidly and explain what awakening is so wonderfully. This includes Dogen, Buddha and the future maitreya buddha!

[Juki]

I have not seen any teacher living or dead, talk so lucidly and explain what awakening is so wonderfully.

hmmm. there is an old Zen saying that goes something like this: "those who know don't speak, and those who speak don't know." At the beginning of your initial post on this thread, you state outright that Adyashanti does not teach in the "traditional Zen style." Surely, you understand that Jundo and Taigu do teach in the traditional Zen style, and that we, as a group, practice in that style. Otherwise ...

[Kokuu]

>Whenever I read/see/hear Tolle I always think about money for some reason

I thought that The Power of Now was okay, although Thich Nhat Hanh explains mindfulness much better for my money. He really lost me with A New Earth as it seemed to buy into all kinds of New Age nonsense that didn't make any sense.

There seems to be a place for people like Adyashanti for those who want to learn practices outside of a religious tradition. I can't say he has ever really spoken to me, though, maybe because I like the depth that tends to come with tradition and lineage.

To each their own.

Andy

[Juki]

>I like the depth that tends to come with tradition and lineage.

Well said, Andy.

Gassho, William

[Genshin]

Thanks for sharing.

To each their own.

Andy

Totally agree.

Two concerns.

Looking at their retreat offering they seem a little expensive, €515 + €557 for accommodation.

Googling Adyashanti suggests he was a student of Taizan Maezumi Roshi, and just that, a student. Personally I like the idea of lineage, dharmma transmissions etc. I'd be nervous about following a teaching that doesn't have a track record if you like. Just my opinion.

All the best & Gassho
Matt

[shikantazen]

hmmm. there is an old Zen saying that goes something like this: "those who know don't speak, and those who speak don't know." At the beginning of your initial post on this thread, you state outright that Adyashanti does not teach in the "traditional Zen style." Surely, you understand that Jundo and Taigu do teach in the traditional Zen style, and that we, as a group, practice in that style. Otherwise ...

In my opinion teachers like Jundo who are in a responsible position should be careful when they criticize other teachers like this. Reason#1 there can be students like me who like the teacher being criticized and might be offended. Reason #2 There can be students who can be misled by the opinions of the teacher which may or may not be true.

[shikantazen]

Matt,

Adyashanti is student of Zen teacher Arvis Justi (who is the student of Maezumi roshi). Yes traditions and transmissions have their value but what tradition did Buddha follow? He was an iconoclast himself; had he not followed his true heart and followed the ascetic practices of the then hindu tradition, we would have no buddha, no buddhism. Just my 2 cents

Sam

[MyoHo]

Not my cup of tea. After watching the posted video a few things spring to mind (I’ll probably get into trouble for this , but here it goes):

Right in the first question asked, I got a funny feeling. A vague “something is off” feeling. A profound realization as the start for an epic search for truth? ( Where did I hear that before?) Not just a common realization but a profound one! At 7 years old mind you. I for one played with lego when I was 7 and only cared for sweets and lemonade. The loss of TV privileges meant great suffering but then again I was a happy kid in a warm home. Many children lose their careless view of the world due to the harsh realities of life. That is not special at all. This way he taps into the popular and vague understanding of enlightenment. If it’s a good one, it comes at an early age like piano prodigies or math wizards. No old roshi that opens his mouth after a lifetime of hard discipline and with poor eyesight because of all that reading. No a prodigy,treoubled with his insight. Then he establishes how hard he worked meditating to get where he is now.Like the great abs ad. So again he taps into admiration of people who could never do this themselves. His teacher was a humble and simple. So it must be a special one! He did it all alone for a long time in silence so he is very exceptional ( eeeeeerrrrrr......welcome to Treeleaf). He had death premonitions at a young age and a power greater than his own took over at a certain point. Then he suffered deeply etc. etc. All combined, it sounds a bit like the script of The karate kid to me.

Once ground of authority is firm and well established, he starts to paraphrase others and posing some great insights from the classics as his own. What probably triggers the much feared “spider senses” is the fact that nothing he says is new, confrontational or seems to be “lived through” the hard way ( like “the dharma is utterly useless” with the band aid still showing , Gassho Taigu sensei). He only seems to keep proving he is the real deal over and over again. He doesn’t say he found in his very own way what the great ones have spoken about in the past, but says these are all his own realizations and he is here to help us. A bit messianic. ( in lack of a better term) That troubles me and the feeling stayed with me during the interview. Maybe it gets better later on but frankly I got tired of it after a while and shut it off. Sorry.

I hope this does not offend some of the people who share another view? It is strictly my own observation of the interview as posted and I'm hoping for a good discussion. Just to compare we should look at an interview wit say S. Suzuki or something. The difference is immediately evident. Again I’m basing this on the posted vid. But this material does not invite further investigation for me.

Gassho

Enkyo

[Genshin]

Hi Sam,
You are correct, I misread an article. You make a good point.
Well, whatever path you choose be safe and be happy.
All the best & Gassho,
Matt

[Daitetsu]

In my opinion teachers like Jundo who are in a responsible position should be careful when they criticize other teachers like this. Reason#1 there can be students like me who like the teacher being criticized and might be offended.

Why should you feel offended if someone criticizes a teacher you like? You are not identical to that person.
If you feel offended only because another person criticizes a teacher you like that's a sure sign of attachment.
IMHO it's Jundo's (and anyone's) good right to utter their opinion - otherwise we were no better than a sulky little child or a Christian feeling insulted because of a Jesus joke.

It is one thing to like a teacher, but a whole different game to feel offended just because someone does not think good of him!
Breathe... let go, relax.

Gassho,

Timo

[Jinyo]

I just watched the video - not familiar with Adyashanti. I can understand that people feel he's a good teacher - he has a calm manner and is very articulate. I guess we all learn in different ways but what makes me feel solid 'here' is that Jundo and Taigu never trade on their spiritual experiences. I find it offputting to listen to 'stories' of awakening because someone else's story is like poetry - it is metaphor and it doesn't necessarily have any truth value. I couldn't pick up on anything from the video that isn't laid out in primary texts - like Dogen and the traditional sources of Zen. In essence - I feel there are too many words out there and it can be very seductive. I like the way the teaching is presented in a 'true to the sources' way round here - probably not explaining this very well - but I feel there's a subtle difference. Anyway - too many words, Gassho, Willow

[Brian Roessler]

I'm curious about two things here:

1) what does he (Adyashanti) mean when he talks about his awakening or opening experiences? I listened to enough of the video to hear about what he identified as very pivotal experiences he had at 8 & 25 years old. I feel like I had similar kinds of things happen at similar ages - moments where I looked at the world and realized it just was NOT what I had thought it was. I think most people have such kinds of things happen to them, for instance, walking alone in the forest as a child, or looking up at the stars and really paying attention to them for the first time. I don't understand what is interesting/significant about his stories. There must be something else to what he's saying?

2) I also don't understand why what this man has to say is pushing so many peoples' buttons (including mine). There're a zillion people out there making bank on ideas that are WAY more troublesome than what he's presenting. Is it that what he's saying is in many ways so close to what we're studying and practicing here?