A very strict word of warning

[Taigu]

I had reently two of my students posting videos on the web without consulting me or Jundo about it. And this is not a good idea. Actually, I would like to remind people here that I came to open my mouth on internet after more than 25 years of practice and quite relunctantly. If you are my student you may follow this example. If you are a student in Treeleaf, you are expected to behave like one, to practice, practice and practice again. As soon as you post a vid, you are automatically involving Treeleaf, the community and teachers.
You may of course organize sittings in your city or village, you may participate to forums if you wish, but posting a video can be seen as a form of teaching, and you are not teachers.
Anybody wishing to do otherwise, is not welcome to study with me anymore.

Gassho


Taigu

[ZenHarmony]

I'm sorry, Taigu, I don't understand. Someone posted a Treeleaf video elsewhere? Or posted a video to the forum here at Treeleaf that you felt is not appropriate?

I appreciate the clarification,

Gassho,

Lisa

[Taigu]

They posted videos outside Treeleaf. And Although I can understand that it does not vome from a bad place, it is not acceptable to do so without permission from their teacher.

Gassho


T.

[Jundo]

If I may clarify ...

I think Taigu means that they posted videos presenting the image of a Teacher, with Robes, Rakusu and such.

Gassho, Jundo

[Kyonin]

Understood.

Gassho,

Kyonin

[Myoshin]

Understood too

Gasho

Myoshin

[Nengyo]

Noted.

On the other hand, if anyone ever mistakes me for a zen teacher they probably have a serious lack of judgment that was going to cause them trouble anyways

[MyoHo]

Wow... I wonder what these people were thinking. So, to be very , cristal clear, this is about posing as a teacher elsewere without consulting with you as our teachers? I can see how that rubs you the wrong way.

Is it very insensitive of me to ask where this vid is to be found? To be honest I'm a bit curious now.

[Hans]

Hello Enkyo,

I cannot speak for Taigu, nor do I know the videos he refers to. However, sicne I have known him for some time now, I can be reasonably sure that he posted his comments in this open forum not to chastise anyone, but to make a point about the general fact that those who enter into a teacher-student relationship have certain responsibilities. It also doesn't seem to have been about posing as a teacher but rather about making sure one is not mistaken for a teacher, a small yet crucial difference...because this is no game. Taigu's and Jundo's lives are dedicated to this path, they could just as well have fun in a Karaoke bar. They are not doing this Treeleaf thing because they lack hobbies or need more friends.

And from my perspective it is actually a bit insensitive to ask for the videos, since this is not about the videos, but about a general point. Wanting to look at individual videos focusses on individuals again. It's very honest of you to express your curiosity this way however

I am sure Taigu and Jundo will comment in due time (they are probably asleep now).

Gassho,


Hans Chudo Mongen

[Myoshin]

Not at all, if someone says he's speaking in his name, not involving a teacher, saying he's not a monk nor a teacher, and not claiming he is from Treeleaf, but wanted to share a personnal thoughts about his experience, and sharing dharma quotes, texts without commenting, this is I think very clear that it is not posing as a teacher

The students may have misunderstood that it's a wrong idea to do, maybe thinking talking about dharma as a human sharing and not as a teacher sharing was not a fault.

Now that things are clear for them, and the students trust the master recommandation and understand his opinion, and stop this kind of actions, no need to add more about it I think

Without all the datas received by the students concerned, and the reasons, motivations they had to do this we can't judge.

Gassho

Myoshin

[MyoHo]

Hey guys,

I go with Myoshin on this one I think? A clear misunderstanding and not so much a new leaf on Treeleaf. Maybe the vid(s) was out of enthusiasm or an honest urge to share? Inspiration can be hard to resist sometimes, right?

True, it makes me wonder what triggered this response and why? The matter clearly is serious enough to post on the public forum instead of a PM and so, open for debate. Not the students themselves! Off course not!

But the teaching outside Treeleaf and the boudries to it, are an interesting toppic I think. Saving others( although there are no others) as I understand, means telling about it, SHARING and take every chance we get to teach and maybe even putting someone on the path that is no path, if we get the chance. So what is acceptable and what not? Only a true sensei can say, hence the permission part I think. That is perhaps where something went a bit... sideways?
I agree with you that taking on the role of a teacher is a very, very serious thing. The responsibility of guiding others on the Way is tremendous .

I feel space to ask for a bit more information because it is a sincere request and trust the answer will be clear and straight forward as always. Forgive me if I come across a bit blunt sometimes Hans. The practice of being spontaneous tends to get me into trouble every now and again . Isn't it great?

Gassho

Enkyo

[RichardH]

Hi. I do not know these videos, but this thread, and Taigu's general warning, raises something for me that has been, and is, very important. Where does the desire to teach, to be a teacher, come from? Where does it come from in here? I know what "having a calling" means, and I have one. Yet, I also have urges to preach that are, truth be told, in the service of self-image. Why teach? why preach? Where is it coming from?


.. just a thought from the peanut gallery..


Gassho, Daizan

[Kyonin]

The important thing of Taigu's request is that one should not pretend to teach anything in the name of Treeleaf, unless he/she is an authorized teacher. That means receiving transmission, which takes many many years to come. More information here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharma_transmission

There is a clear hierarchy in Zen Buddhism that we must understand. Not only in Treeleaf, but in any Zen sangha.

There's anything wrong in talking about the dharma or Zen Buddhism, participating in forums, public talks or even Hangouts; but one should not pretend to teach or getting into discussions when one doesn't know most of the basic dharma to engage in such activities.

As for the mentioned videos, they are not relevant.

We need to understand Taigu's petition, not to look for culprits.

But that's only my two cents.

Gassho,

Kyonin

[Taigu]

Hi guys,

Hans speaks my mind. The vids are actually quite good, but good or not is not the point. Even if someone feels enthusiastic to share the path and go global on the web, because of the nature of the teacher to student relationship, he or she has responsabilities. The first and foremost responsability of a student is to practice and study and this takes more than more than a decade or two. A lifetime and beyond. Even if you dont put yourself out there as a teacher, wearing robes and talking Dharma will make you one the the eyes of some people, and because you belong to Treeleaf, as soon as you speak, Treeleaf is somehow involved, and Treeleaf s responsability too.And the whole thing is about a first year student of a medical school prescribing remedies and advising people. Wouldn t you ask this student to wait et get enough training to be able to do so? And if you ask him to stop and you find out the student is still doing it, what will you do?
My intention was to make clear to everybody that it is not because you receive the robe, jukai or even Tokudo, the priest ordination, that it empowers you to post vids and start a form of teaching on the web. We have a priest training here, and it is quite demanding a very precise. Our senior priests in training are gradually given more space and opportunity to speak and share the Dharma. Nothing should be rushed here.

And don t worry about the student involved here. He understands perfectly now. All is well.It was just a strong warning for him not to do this again and clarification for everybody.


Thank you for taking the time to read my clumsy prose.

Gassho


Taigu

[ZenHarmony]

Thank you for the clarification, Taigu, understood. *deep bows*

Gassho,

Lisa