faust / zen

[jlewis]

Thank you one and all for this interesting post and for everybody's comments on this subject. These ideas of money and possessions have been in the back of my mind for quite some time; especially since this past January after my mother had passed and even more so now that I will become a father in a few weeks.

I love my mom with all my heart but she was terrible with money. What made this matter worse was that she was often left in charge of the household finances. Both of my parents are/were disabled and we lived on a fixed income. Every fight I can remember my parents having involved money. Mom would secretly take out payday loans from multiple locations around town for extra cash. She was not the kind of person to ask for help or to say that she was in a bind and needed help. I don't know if it was pride or shame, but when she had passed the skeletons came out of the closet. My parent's house was nearly a year behind on its mortgage; the phone was shut off and the power was going to be turned off any day. Between the funeral costs and getting my dad on his feet, it took nearly everything that myself, my wife Nicole and my Uncle had to get things at least stable for the moment. Thankfully I can say that right now my dad is doing well and Nicole and I are doing okay.

Once concept I would like to express to my daughter is that money is neither the cause or solution to problems. Looking back I know now that my parent's fights were less about money and more about communication, honesty and balancing household duties. My dad never took the time to be involved with paying bills and the household finances and that was his fault. And mom was never able to ask for help when she needed it.

Probably like the majority of people here all I really want is enough to be comfortable; have a roof over my head, food on the table, bills paid and maybe a little left over for a r
rainy day.

I apologize if I went off on a separate tangent; just kind of let the spirit take me .

Thank you and Gassho,

Josh

[galen]

Thank you one and all for this interesting post and for everybody's comments on this subject. These ideas of money and possessions have been in the back of my mind for quite some time; especially since this past January after my mother had passed and even more so now that I will become a father in a few weeks.

I love my mom with all my heart but she was terrible with money. What made this matter worse was that she was often left in charge of the household finances. Both of my parents are/were disabled and we lived on a fixed income. Every fight I can remember my parents having involved money. Mom would secretly take out payday loans from multiple locations around town for extra cash. She was not the kind of person to ask for help or to say that she was in a bind and needed help. I don't know if it was pride or shame, but when she had passed the skeletons came out of the closet. My parent's house was nearly a year behind on its mortgage; the phone was shut off and the power was going to be turned off any day. Between the funeral costs and getting my dad on his feet, it took nearly everything that myself, my wife Nicole and my Uncle had to get things at least stable for the moment. Thankfully I can say that right now my dad is doing well and Nicole and I are doing okay.

Once concept I would like to express to my daughter is that money is neither the cause or solution to problems. Looking back I know now that my parent's fights were less about money and more about communication, honesty and balancing household duties. My dad never took the time to be involved with paying bills and the household finances and that was his fault. And mom was never able to ask for help when she needed it.

Probably like the majority of people here all I really want is enough to be comfortable; have a roof over my head, food on the table, bills paid and maybe a little left over for a r
rainy day.

I apologize if I went off on a separate tangent; just kind of let the spirit take me .

Thank you and Gassho,

Josh

You did great here, Josh!

Thank you for sharing, and the best to you and your wife.

[Mp]

Thank you one and all for this interesting post and for everybody's comments on this subject. These ideas of money and possessions have been in the back of my mind for quite some time; especially since this past January after my mother had passed and even more so now that I will become a father in a few weeks.

I love my mom with all my heart but she was terrible with money. What made this matter worse was that she was often left in charge of the household finances. Both of my parents are/were disabled and we lived on a fixed income. Every fight I can remember my parents having involved money. Mom would secretly take out payday loans from multiple locations around town for extra cash. She was not the kind of person to ask for help or to say that she was in a bind and needed help. I don't know if it was pride or shame, but when she had passed the skeletons came out of the closet. My parent's house was nearly a year behind on its mortgage; the phone was shut off and the power was going to be turned off any day. Between the funeral costs and getting my dad on his feet, it took nearly everything that myself, my wife Nicole and my Uncle had to get things at least stable for the moment. Thankfully I can say that right now my dad is doing well and Nicole and I are doing okay.

Once concept I would like to express to my daughter is that money is neither the cause or solution to problems. Looking back I know now that my parent's fights were less about money and more about communication, honesty and balancing household duties. My dad never took the time to be involved with paying bills and the household finances and that was his fault. And mom was never able to ask for help when she needed it.

Probably like the majority of people here all I really want is enough to be comfortable; have a roof over my head, food on the table, bills paid and maybe a little left over for a r
rainy day.

I apologize if I went off on a separate tangent; just kind of let the spirit take me .

Thank you and Gassho,

Josh

Thank you Josh for sharing your story. I can relate in way as I grew up in a household of gamblers and alcoholics. They would work too much to get all the stuff, then drink too much to reduce the stress of working to much to get all the stuff, then gamble to get back the money they spent on the drinking and stuff. Was a crazy circle to grow up in.

The one thing I learned as I got older is money does not buy happiness, but it does help to create a sense of security (ie: a roof over your head). So, in order to create a sense of this security and be able to enjoy and live the life I would like, I adopted a minimalistic life, a life where I work to live, not live to work, a life where I didn't need a great deal of money to live or get by. In doing so I have a life where I have good friends and wonderful experiences.

Gassho
Michael

[Jundo]

What can you tell us about Vimalakirti, a contemporary of Shakamuni Buddha, who is oft presented as the great lay buddhist, with wealth and all.

I often think that a companion to the 'golden rule' is 'need what you take, take what you need' approach to materialism. And being willing to ask an honest question of
"do I really need that?" and an honest resolve to that ongoing question.

Hi Y,

Yes, Vimalakirti, the Greatest of All Buddhists out in the world, who in his Sutra runs Enso rings around the other Great Bodhisattvas ... was LOADED! However, his relationship to his wealth and his use for it is the key. The Sutra describes a fellow who was quite active in the world, even visiting the bars and casinos, a family man, a sharp dresser, and well loved by all ... yet always able to convey an example of the Buddha Way ... [Burton Watson Translation] ...

Desiring to save others, he employed the excellent expedient of residing in [the town of] Vaishali. His immeasurable riches he used to relieve the poor, his faultless observation of the precepts served as a reproach to those who would violate prohibitions. Through his restraint and forbearance he warned others against rage and anger, and his great assiduousness discouraged all thought of sloth and indolence. Concentrating his single mind in quiet meditation, he suppressed disordered thoughts; through firm and unwavering wisdom he overcame all that was not wise.

Though dressed in the white robes of a layman, he observed all the rules of pure conduct laid down for monks, and though he lived at home, he felt no attachment to the threefold world. One could see he had a wife and children, yet he was at all times chaste in action; obviously he had kin and household attendants, yet he always delighted in withdrawing from them. Although he wore jewels and finery, his real adornment was the auspicious marks; although he ate and drank like others, what he truly savored was the joy of meditation.

If he visited the gambling parlors, it was solely to bring enlightenment to those there; if he listened to the doctrines of other religions, he did not allow them to impinge on the true faith. Though well versed in secular writings, his constant delight was in the Buddhist Law. Respected by everyone, he was looked on as foremost among those deserving of alms; embracing and upholding the correct Dharma, he gave guidance to old and young. In a spirit of trust and harmony he conducted all kinds of business enterprises, but though he reaped worldly profits, he took no delight in these.

He frequented the busy crossroads in order to bring benefit to others, entered the government offices and courts of law so as to aid and rescue all those he could. He visited the places of debate in order to guide others to the Great Vehicle, visited the schools and study halls to further the instruction of the pupils. He entered houses of ill fame to teach the folly of fleshly desire, entered wine shops in order to encourage those with a will to quit them.

If he was among rich men, they honored him as foremost among them because he preached the superior Law for them. If he was among lay believers, they honored him as foremost because he freed them from greed and attachment. Among Kshatriyas he was most highly honored because he taught them forbearance. Among Brahmans he was most highly honored because he rid them of their self-conceit. The great ministers honored him as foremost because he taught the correct Law. The princes honored him as foremost because he showed them how to be loyal and filial. Within the women's quarters he was most honored because he converted and brought refinement to the women of the harem.

The common people honored him as first among them because he helped them to gain wealth and power. The Brahma deities honored him as first among them because he revealed the superiority of wisdom. The Indras honored him as first among them because he demonstrated the truth of impermanence. The Four Heavenly Kings, guardians of the world, honored him as foremost because he guarded all living beings.

In this way the rich man Vimalakirti employed immeasurable numbers of expedient means in order to bring benefit to others.

By the way, Dogen's Eiheiji Monastery has been described by some as an attempt at a collective, a Kibbutz, an ideal community of "from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs". Yes, although he had never heard the term, Dogen might be described as something of a Dharma-socialist. He too, like most idealists, found the realities perhaps more complicated than he planned ... but he never gave up the effort. (The same observation might be made of Gautama Buddha's vision of a communal, peaceful "Sangha").

Gassho, J

[Risho]

We often see overt reaction, in this country, to any talk of increased taxation to help others. And most people think that taking away a little more from one's own pockets is
an intolerable compromise. Yet, when we look at what people have, what they accumulate, what they are willing to pay for a pair of jeans, or how often they replace their computer
or cell phone with the latest-and-greatest version.....in fact, there seems to a significant amount of disposable income in this nation. Alot.

Word on that man... what's also crazy is how some companies pay laborers so little for their work yet mark up their products a lot. ok I'm not using specifics, but we outsource labor to poor nations. It's basically a form of legalized slave labor in my opinion.

[galen]

Word on that man... what's also crazy is how some companies pay laborers so little for their work yet mark up their products a lot. ok I'm not using specifics, but we outsource labor to poor nations. It's basically a form of legalized slave labor in my opinion.

It is the main goal of conservatism, esp here in the states. While mostly, religiously zealot, they hide behind the god of money. Its never about the whole, its every man for himself, get out of my way, including the environment.

[Saijun]

Word on that man... what's also crazy is how some companies pay laborers so little for their work yet mark up their products a lot. ok I'm not using specifics, but we outsource labor to poor nations. It's basically a form of legalized slave labor in my opinion.

Hello Risho,

For what it's worth, some of the practices of some companies (Foxconn springs to mind) aren't legal in the slightest--the question is one of politicians being willing to take on the corporations, which is a much bigger and more difficult issue.

In Gassho,

Saijun