Fear of Death

[Seiryu]

Re: Fear of Death

Hello friends,

I rather like how Rev. Brad puts it in one of his books (can't remember, and am going to paraphrase): If you believe in rebirth, then you must also believe that this is the afterlife. Stop wasting it.

Metta,

Saijun

I agree; its funny because I just posted that quote on my facebook

"If you want to believe in reincarnation, you have to believe that this life, what you are living through right now, is the afterlife. You're missing out on the afterlife you looked forward to in your last existence by worrying about your next life. This is what happens after you die. Take a look." ~Brad Warner

Gassho

Seiryu

[Kaishin]

Re: Fear of Death

Hello friends,

I rather like how Rev. Brad puts it in one of his books (can't remember, and am going to paraphrase): If you believe in rebirth, then you must also believe that this is the afterlife. Stop wasting it.

Metta,

Saijun

I agree; its funny because I just posted that quote on my facebook

"If you want to believe in reincarnation, you have to believe that this life, what you are living through right now, is the afterlife. You're missing out on the afterlife you looked forward to in your last existence by worrying about your next life. This is what happens after you die. Take a look." ~Brad Warner

Gassho

Seiryu

Great quote! So, whether there's rebirth or there isn't, the life you're living is all you've got!

[Saijun]

Re: Fear of Death

I don't want to be a killjoy, but do you know where that quote is taken from? I know some people are claiming it to be from the sutta nipata collection, but I have yet to find it there. It could be one of those Buddha quotes that are abundant on the internet, but is nowhere to be found in the actual suttas or sutras. All sorts of things have in like manner been ascribed to the Buddha, not saying though that this has to be the case here.

Hello Anista,

I'm actually fairly certain that that quote is in the Pali Canon, though I don't remember where. If I come across it, I'll give you the citation.

Metta,

Saijun

[anista]

Fear of Death

I don't want to be a killjoy, but do you know where that quote is taken from? I know some people are claiming it to be from the sutta nipata collection, but I have yet to find it there. It could be one of those Buddha quotes that are abundant on the internet, but is nowhere to be found in the actual suttas or sutras. All sorts of things have in like manner been ascribed to the Buddha, not saying though that this has to be the case here.

Hello Anista,

I'm actually fairly certain that that quote is in the Pali Canon, though I don't remember where. If I come across it, I'll give you the citation.

Metta,

Saijun

Great! Then I will continue my search for it.

[Saijun]

Re: Fear of Death

Great! Then I will continue my search for it.

Hello Anista,

So far, I've only been able to find it cited in "Sutta Nipata." Perhaps this is a faulty citation; I can't seem to actually find it in the text, but I've heard a few Dharma talks on the Four Divine Abidings which reference it, so perhaps it's a later creation?

Metta,

Saijun

[Myozan Kodo]

Re: Fear of Death

Thank you Matto for this thread.
If I were really wise I might say something like, "death is just death; the fear is extra".
But I am not wise and am as s**t scared of death as anyone.
But then again, I'm usually too busy with life to think about it.
Still, I imagine when the moment comes I will ask someone to ring a bell by the hospital bed so that I can enter the mind of zazen again.
Gassho
Soen

[anista]

Re: Fear of Death

Great! Then I will continue my search for it.

Hello Anista,

So far, I've only been able to find it cited in "Sutta Nipata." Perhaps this is a faulty citation; I can't seem to actually find it in the text, but I've heard a few Dharma talks on the Four Divine Abidings which reference it, so perhaps it's a later creation?

Metta,

Saijun

Hello Saijun,

Yes, that's what I found too, that the quote is supposed to be in sutta nipata.The sutta nipata, however, is a collection and contains some 70 (or more) suttas, and I haven't read through them all. Not sure if all of them are translated to English, and my knowledge of Pali is scarce.

And yes, I also suspect it to be a later creation, but I can't be sure. The quote itself doesn't sound like it is from a sutta. There's just something about it.

Thanks for your time though, Saijun. I'm going to look a bit further into this. To search ancient scriptures for obscure quotes is what I do in my spare time .


Edit to add: Here's a site that talks about false Buddha quotes. It's a quite interesting read, and I've seen those quotes on google searches, on twitter, facebook, on android and iphone apps, etc. They are very widespread. It's worth a look.

[Shohei]

Re: Fear of Death

Hi all
Good topic and replies
I absolutely feared death, nearly to death.... when i realized there was no orderly way (Grandfather, father, son) so to speak, there was no discrimination. Thing is I wasted so many moments worrying about death!!

Gassho
Shohei

[Hoyu]

Re: Fear of Death

Hi All,

I kind of look at it this way. It's like having the alarm set to wake you in the morning. Its going to go off when the time comes weather we like it or not and there is nothing we can do to stop it. I suppose it could be argued that one could just simply unplug it, but then we would be late for work, lose our jobs, etc in a downward spiral. :shock: For the sake of argument lets say we can't. So we have few choices in the matter. We can worry about it all night and and turn into insomniacs. Or we can acknowledge the inevitability of it, let it pass, and not ruin a good nights rest. Once again the choice is ours!

Gassho,
John

[anista]

Fear of Death

For a long time I worried about it. Full of thoughts and fears like, "where was I before I was born? It was before the five senses of the flesh and blood. Since I have no memories it must have been the complete void of nothingness. If I came from nothingness what guarantee(religious idea of an afterlife) is there that I will not just return to that nothingness?"
Even now I still believe that when it's lights out the shows over folks. What has helped me get over it is if this is the only time that i will ever exist how lucky I am. First like written above I'm lucky to have even been born. And not just being born because I could have been born as a slug, so I'm lucky that if I only have one life to live that I'm living it as a human being. And not just that. I could have been born as a human in a poverished country where I, most likely due to disease, war, ect, would never have even lived as long as I have. I'm lucky that even if i die today i will have outlived many more than I can imagine. My list goes on and on but I'll stop here. In conclusion we should not think of how unlucky death is but rather focus on how lucky it is to have what we have in this life.

Gassho,
John

Hello John,

I wonder why you think you came from nothingness, just because you have no memories from the time before you were born? I have no memories from when I was one year old, but I still existed then, didn't I?

I am also curious if you consider yourself to be a materialist, adhering to what Zen buddhist teacher Sante Poromaa called "the (natural)-scientific materialistic view of life -- a finite, isolated event with a distinct beginning and a distinct end". May I ask you how you reconcile the Buddha's teaching with such a perspective?

I'm not asking from an antagonistic point of view, I'm genuinely interested. To me it would be hard to leave that, in my perspective and experience, vital part of Buddhism out, and still call it Buddhism.

i'm sorry if you in any way took offence by these questions. Feel free to ignore them.

[Geika]

Re: Fear of Death

How do we know that life is rare or not so rare? Is it a spectacular gift, or is it something we have done over and over, like an exercise? Is this life a punishment away from our true existence, or a vacation? Is it anything with any meaning at all?

Life seems to be rare in this universe, as far as we know. However, what of quantum physics and the possibility of other planes of existence, whether lofty or grossly physical, existing, possibly, right alongside you.

When I start thinking about these things, I realize how much I cannot possibly know due to the existence or non existence of alternate realities, or the existence or non existence of "life" after death. With all the possible forms of life that there could be, whether here, in another dimension, or even after death, there is just no way of knowing from my frame of reference... at least not yet.

What we perceive might simply be a program in the matrix we are plugged into just so that giant robots can feed off of our bio electricity...

I guess what I am saying is that I don't like to talk about how "special" or "precious" life is, nor do I like to cynically define it as something heavy, biological and meaningless. I just don't know what the hell it is to begin with! As afraid as I am of death, I don't know what that is, either, or if there is any point in being afraid. How do I even know that I am going to die, until it eventually or doesn't eventually happen? How do I know there is even time? How do I know that this is not all a dream!

AHHH!!!!

I'll stop now.

/ Amelia

[Kaishin]

Re: Fear of Death

How do we know that life is rare or not so rare? ... I guess what I am saying is that I don't like to talk about how "special" or "precious" life is,

Rare, maybe we'll never know, but I would definitely argue for precious. Life is so fragile, we are here for such a short time, and it's certainly wondrous.

But it isn't a simple matter, as you've elaborately noted!

[Hoyu]

Re: Fear of Death

Anista wrote:
i'm sorry if you in any way took offence by these questions. Feel free to ignore them.

No offense taken. Let's examine this together shall we.....

Anista wrote:
I wonder why you think you came from nothingness, just because you have no memories from the time before you were born? I have no memories from when I was one year old, but I still existed then, didn't I?

I don't have conscious memories of age one either. However we should not assume everyone is like us. Perhaps some people do? Of course we can go back even further in age to limit the likeliness and try to prove its possible to exist without them. Hell we could use plants as an example! Instead we can drop that because we don't even need to use the concept of memory as a sole determining factor to examine nonexistence.

John wrote:
For a long time I worried about it. Full of thoughts and fears like, "where was I before I was born? It was before the five senses of the flesh and blood. Since I have no memories it must have been the complete void of nothingness. If I came from nothingness what guarantee(religious idea of an afterlife) is there that I will not just return to that nothingness?"

If you notice lack of memory, though a part of it, is not only what I believe makes us exist or not. I also mentioned physical form and the 5 senses. The way i see it the more you take away from the equation the closer to nothingness you get. No form, no thoughts, no seeing, no hearing, no smelling, etc (wow, now i'm starting to hear the heart sutra playing in my head!). If you have absolutely no way to perceive anything how can you possibly be considered to be anything more than nothingness?

Anista wrote:
I am also curious if you consider yourself to be a materialist, adhering to what Zen buddhist teacher Sante Poromaa called "the (natural)-scientific materialistic view of life -- a finite, isolated event with a distinct beginning and a distinct end".

I don't, but its okay with me if you do.

Anista wrote:
May I ask you how you reconcile the Buddha's teaching with such a perspective?

I didn't know i had to :shock:
In your opinion which of Buddha's teachings do I need to?

Gassho,
John

[Geika]

Re: Fear of Death

How do we know that life is rare or not so rare? ... I guess what I am saying is that I don't like to talk about how "special" or "precious" life is,

Rare, maybe we'll never know, but I would definitely argue for precious. Life is so fragile, we are here for such a short time, and it's certainly wondrous.

But it isn't a simple matter, as you've elaborately noted!

I think that in the shortening of my quote up there, the meaning has been somewhat altered. The whole thing is:

"I guess what I am saying is that I don't like to talk about how "special" or "precious" life is, nor do I like to cynically define it as something heavy, biological and meaningless. I just don't know what... [life] is..!"

I don't want anyone coming away from my post with the idea that I don't find life to be absolutely wonderful, wondrous, precious, awesome, (insert adjective); etc, in my own human way.

[Geika]

Re: Fear of Death

I just had a very flighty, freeing, and exciting feeling that death is a huge adventure that I have gone on over and over again, and that going through it is no big deal at all!

But then, as soon as the feeling came and felt like the truth, I let it move along, for once. The moving along of the feeling felt more liberating than the huge rush of liberation that the feeling seemed to be.

Bows for both feelings.

/ Amelia