Fear of Death

[Kaishin]

Came across a quote by Epicurus this weekend that I think matches the spirit of Zen and Buddhist notions of impermanence:

...death is nothing to us. For all good and evil consists in sensation, but death is deprivation of sensation. And therefore a right understanding that death is nothing to us makes the mortality of life enjoyable, not because it adds to it an infinite span of time, but because it takes away the craving for immortality. For there is nothing terrible in life for the man who has truly comprehended that there is nothing terrible in not living. [Death] does not then concern either the living or the dead, since for the former it is not, and the latter are no more... That which gives no trouble when it comes, is but an empty pain in anticipation.

Gassho,
Matt

[Taigu]

Re: Fear of Death

Zen is about realizing that life and death are not two.
That being said, I treasure life, I love life, i love life in people and things.
When death comes, so be it. It is now life, so be it.
Tahnk you for the quote.


gassho


Taigu

[Risho]

Re: Fear of Death

I was reticent to post this, but it comes from a place of honesty. Death scares the shit out of me.

[Rich]

Re: Fear of Death

Most of mmy fears now are silly and neurotic and I work with them. I'm more concerned with what can I do to live than fear of dying.

[Hoyu]

Re: Fear of Death

Hi Matt,

There are a lot of really good thoughts here. This one really grabs me most though.

Death does not then concern either the living or the dead, since for the former it is not, and the latter are no more...

Much to think about here!

Gassho,
John

[Seiryu]

Re: Fear of Death

I was reticent to post this, but it comes from a place of honesty. Death scares the shit out of me.

It use to scare me too. I use to have sleepless nights thinking about death, and trying to trick myself that it will never happen to me. When I started to venture into Buddhism I would avoid everything that had to do with death. But then I heard a a talk from Richard Dawkins that made me see things in a different light...

We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Arabia. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively exceeds the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here.

I do not know why I am here, or if there is any point to my being here. All I know is that I am here. And for that, just for that fact I want to make the best out of it. To really be aware of what is going on around me, while I enjoy this short yet beautiful thing we call life. Death comes with this package, so be it. in the meanwhile; we should all try to be happy and make those around us happy, since we never know if this chance at life will ever come again...

Gassho

Seiryu

[Risho]

Re: Fear of Death

Gassho

[Shokai]

Re: Fear of Death

Risho wrote;

Death scares the shit out of me.

look at it this way, shit happens, at least you don't have to resort to medication to clear your colon.

Seiryu wrote;

To really be aware of what is going on around me, while I enjoy this short yet beautiful thing we call life. Death comes with this package, so be it. in the meanwhile; we should all try to be happy and make those around us happy, since we never know if this chance at life will ever come again...

Awesome; i don't think even the HHDL XIV ever came up with something better

Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions.
Dalai Lama

Buddha's thoughts on Happiness;

http://www3.sympatico.ca/rjmaxwell/toristar.htm

[anista]

Fear of Death

I'm not afraid of death, never have been. Well, except for one time when I was six and my grandfather died, I got really upset because I thought that death meant that we just disappear. I couldn't handle that idea very well. I have since seen the death of several people I know, including my mother and father, and have fully experienced that death is also birth. I am not afraid of what came before I was born, and so I am not afraid of what comes after I die.

Oh, and Shokai, regarding this quote:

Buddha's thoughts on Happiness;


http://www3.sympatico.ca/rjmaxwell/toristar.htm

I don't want to be a killjoy, but do you know where that quote is taken from? I know some people are claiming it to be from the sutta nipata collection, but I have yet to find it there. It could be one of those Buddha quotes that are abundant on the internet, but is nowhere to be found in the actual suttas or sutras. All sorts of things have in like manner been ascribed to the Buddha, not saying though that this has to be the case here.

[Hoyu]

Re: Fear of Death

We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Arabia. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively exceeds the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here.

Hi Seiryu,
This is a beautiful example of how luck we are. When it comes to life and death I think similarly to what you have posted here.
For a long time I worried about it. Full of thoughts and fears like, "where was I before I was born? It was before the five senses of the flesh and blood. Since I have no memories it must have been the complete void of nothingness. If I came from nothingness what guarantee(religious idea of an afterlife) is there that I will not just return to that nothingness?"
Even now I still believe that when it's lights out the shows over folks. What has helped me get over it is if this is the only time that i will ever exist how lucky I am. First like written above I'm lucky to have even been born. And not just being born because I could have been born as a slug, so I'm lucky that if I only have one life to live that I'm living it as a human being. And not just that. I could have been born as a human in a poverished country where I, most likely due to disease, war, ect, would never have even lived as long as I have. I'm lucky that even if i die today i will have outlived many more than I can imagine. My list goes on and on but I'll stop here. In conclusion we should not think of how unlucky death is but rather focus on how lucky it is to have what we have in this life.

Gassho,
John

[Seiryu]

Re: Fear of Death

My thoughts exactly John!

And not only that, the whole fact that we have an opportunity to walk a path that lets us become aware of the fact that we are so fortunate is another incredible thing. Living life without reflecting on how rare it is, isn't bad, but the fact that we can look back at our life and not take it for granted is something truly amazing.

Like stated in the evening Gatha

Let me respectfully remind you,
Life and death are of supreme importance.
Time swiftly passes by and opportunity is lost.
Each of us should strive to awaken.
Awaken! Take heed!
Do not squander your lives....

Gassho

Seiryu

[Seiryu]

Re: Fear of Death

Just to add-

Since I have no memories it must have been the complete void of nothingness. If I came from nothingness what guarantee(religious idea of an afterlife) is there that I will not just return to that nothingness?"
Even now I still believe that when it's lights out the shows over folks.

To that extend I completly agree. Lights out, show over.
But at the same time the show must go on...

The interesting part is, that whether we like it or not, we will live forever. Not in the traditional afterlife lying on a cloud taking harp lessons idea, but by remembering that every action we partake it, every word we speak or write, has an effect on this world. And that effect doesn't simply go away just because we are no longer here. I am here because thousand upon thousand of years ago my ancestors was smart enough not to be eaten. Because of that, I am here. In that sense he is not dead, I am simply his continuation. Who knows what will come about from my actions in the future. My proof of having existed will not be taken away.

When I remember this, I feel I have to take full responsibility for all my thoughts and actions, because they will have a very long lasting effect on this universe.

Every actions, from the profound to the mundane, effects this universe like ripples in a pond after a stone has been dropped in.
Endless ripples in this vast ocean we call space and time...

Just some ideas...

Gassho

Seiryu

[Kaishin]

Re: Fear of Death

Some great comments, thanks for sharing. I really like the Dawkins quote that Seiryu posted.

I don't fear death, but it saddens me to think of no longer seeing loved ones, or to think that they may suffer when I'm gone. I never thought much of death until I had children. Then suddenly there they are, daily reminders of impermanence. They change so fast.

Gassho,
Matt

[Hoyu]

Re: Fear of Death

Seiryu wrote:
The interesting part is, that whether we like it or not, we will live forever. Not in the traditional afterlife lying on a cloud taking harp lessons idea, but by remembering that every action we partake it, every word we speak or write, has an effect on this world. And that effect doesn't simply go away just because we are no longer here. I am here because thousand upon thousand of years ago my ancestors was smart enough not to be eaten. Because of that, I am here. In that sense he is not dead, I am simply his continuation. Who knows what will come about from my actions in the future. My proof of having existed will not be taken away.

Also we will live forever in that every part of our existing body will be recycled back into the chain of life. Our bodies will break down and be consumed by insects, plants etc. And when they die it will begin again. As you say though it is not in the traditional idea of an afterlife but it is imortality none the less!
I like how they put it in the movie Avatar. All that we have is merely borrowed and someday we will have to give it back.

Gassho,
John

[Saijun]

Re: Fear of Death

Hello friends,

I rather like how Rev. Brad puts it in one of his books (can't remember, and am going to paraphrase): If you believe in rebirth, then you must also believe that this is the afterlife. Stop wasting it.

Metta,

Saijun