Precepts and Perfections and Other Lowly Things

[Seiryu]

Re: Precepts and Perfections and Other Lowly Things

I think that would go along way to helping people see that Buddhism is not morbid or obsessed with suffering! "Suffering is real and cannot be avoided" sounds so much better than the "Life is suffering" I've heard elsewhere.

Hi All,
Something I had heard before is that life is suffering is a translation different from how the Buddha actually worded it. It was said to be something more along the line of life is not having contentment. I can't remember exactly how it was put but the speaker stressed the difference. Perhaps someone here may shed some light on this?

Gassho,
John

To my knowledge the Buddha did not say "Life is suffering" He said "Life is Dukkha" Dukkha meaning more along the lines of unsatisfactoriness, dissatisfaction, discomfort,stress, and frustration. And the cause of this "Dukkha" is our grasping mind, on wanted to have a permanent something to hold on to.
I think the translation of dissatisfaction is better than suffering. We are dissatisfied with life because it is not the way we want it to be.

"Life is Dukkha"

Gassho

Seiryu

[Taigu]

Re: Precepts and Perfections and Other Lowly Things

Causeless joy is so easy, like clear water, things beautiful..getting attached or not is not an issue anymore.

going to bed...

joy


gassho


Taigu

[ghop]

Re: Precepts and Perfections and Other Lowly Things

Freedom has to be lived in the world, and living in the world means identifying oneself with everything for the sake of experience and activity. Even suffering. Especially suffering.

I once heard Nirvana described this way. Our ego is like a tire inflated with hot air. Nirvana, which means "to blow out," is when all the hot air is let out of our tire, leaving only emptiness.

Suffering only exists on the level of thought. When we sit, who suffers? But when we rise we start the game all over again. Cause and effect. Taigu, I really like this:

Joy has no cause.
The meaning of Nirvana is cessation.
The causeless is Nirvana.

It tastes like emptiness. Refreshingly beautiful.

gassho
Greg

[Saijun]

Re: Precepts and Perfections and Other Lowly Things

Causeless joy is so easy, like clear water, things beautiful..getting attached or not is not an issue anymore.

going to bed...

joy


gassho


Taigu

Thank you, Rev. Taigu.

Gassho,

Saijun

[ghop]

Re: Precepts and Perfections and Other Lowly Things

I think the translation of dissatisfaction is better than suffering. We are dissatisfied with life because it is not the way we want it to be.

I agree. Kinda. Dissatisfaction is just a well dressed way of saying suffering. We have to call it what it is. There are degrees to it, but it's still suffering. NOT LIFE. Life is not suffering. Dukkha is like a finger that is out of joint. Nothing wrong with the finger. It just needs to be restored to its natural state. We suffer when we expect Mexican food then at the last minute our wife says she would rather have Chinese. There are physical changes that take place in the nervouse system when we don't get what we want. I think it goes deeper than dissatisfaction. If not, then freedom could be called satisfaction. I've never experienced any lasting satisfaction, or dissatisfaction for that matter. They come and go. But suffering, suffering is always with me, in thoughts I want to go away, in thoughts I want to cling to, in experiences, in everything. It's not bad. Nobody is punishing us. It's just Reality. Without suffering we would never have a chance to develop compassion.

gassho
Greg

[Seiryu]

Re: Precepts and Perfections and Other Lowly Things

I agree. Kinda. Dissatisfaction is just a well dressed way of saying suffering. We have to call it what it is. There are degrees to it, but it's still suffering. NOT LIFE. Life is not suffering. Dukkha is like a finger that is out of joint. Nothing wrong with the finger. It just needs to be restored to its natural state. We suffer when we expect Mexican food then at the last minute our wife says she would rather have Chinese. There are physical changes that take place in the nervouse system when we don't get what we want. I think it goes deeper than dissatisfaction. If not, then freedom could be called satisfaction. I've never experienced any lasting satisfaction, or dissatisfaction for that matter. They come and go. But suffering, suffering is always with me, in thoughts I want to go away, in thoughts I want to cling to, in experiences, in everything. It's not bad. Nobody is punishing us. It's just Reality. Without suffering we would never have a chance to develop compassion.

gassho
Greg

Wow! I really like this!

Although I will not call dissatisfaction a well dressed up way of saying suffering. only because, when these words such as Dukkha get translating into our culture and language they take on all the connotations and ideas our language has on the word. Every time I thought of the word suffering, I would think of war, starving children, and all the horrors that unfortunately or a part of life. But I wouldn't call life that. Life is not exempt from that, but that is certainly not the sum total of it.

But you are right; without some degree of suffering, dissatisfaction, or whatever, we would not have to chance to develop compassion.

Gassho

Seiryu

[Ekai]

Re: Precepts and Perfections and Other Lowly Things

I will keep this short since I am on a quick lunch break.

I have viewed it simply as clinging leads to suffering. Letting of clinging leads to the release of suffering. I heard a Thervada teacher once say "Nothing is worth is clinging to". Sometimes I will say this to myself when I feel an attachment and it helps to let it go. Clinging is like a domino effect that leads to aversion, greed, ignorance, selfishness and anger. But letting of clinging can domino effect that leads to mindfulness, clarity, peace, compassion, lovingkindess and wisdom.

Thanks,
Jodi

[Hoyu]

Re: Precepts and Perfections and Other Lowly Things

Seiryu wrote:
To my knowledge the Buddha did not say "Life is suffering" He said "Life is Dukkha" Dukkha meaning more along the lines of unsatisfactoriness, dissatisfaction, discomfort,stress, and frustration. And the cause of this "Dukkha" is our grasping mind, on wanted to have a permanent something to hold on to.

Hi Seiryu,
Thanks. This is more of the translation that was being expressed in the Dharma talk I had heard. The point was that using the phrase Life is Suffering really gives Buddhism a depressive view. The concern was that Buddhist, from the outside observer, would seem to have a negative perspective of existence. At least that's feeling of the individual giving the Dharma talk. I could understand the concern to an extent.

Gassho,
John

[Risho]

Re: Precepts and Perfections and Other Lowly Things

Don't worry Risho, I am not :twisted: . teachers are all different, they talk about the same mountain from a slight different viewpoint. In this case could you be more precise? What does Daido say that I did not?

Thank you

gassho


T.

Nothing. I thought you worded it great! It just reminded me of something I read. This point struck me deeply because I use self deprecation to elevate myself. Well I catch myself doing it now at least

Gassho Risho

[Shokai]

Re: Precepts and Perfections and Other Lowly Things

Blessed are they that expect nothing; for they shall not be disappointed

This morning i forgot to put the carafe in the coffee maker. result is, lots of coffee grounds running around on the counter in a sea of concentrated coffee water; a rather disconcerting scenario :cry:. (Not what I wanted but it was what it was) Before zen? or rather sometime since starting practice (measured in years) I would have been quite upset. Now, I took a breath, cleaned up the mess and brewed another pot; got on with life without getting hung up on my lapse in awareness. 8)

It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters.
Epictetus

[Ekai]

Re: Precepts and Perfections and Other Lowly Things

Hi Everyone,

I have a suggestion for this post since this will probably get really long. Maybe we can have separate posts for each of the subjects: 4 Noble Truths, Noble 8-fold Path, 6 Perfections, 12-fold Chain of Dependent Origination, 16 Bodhisattva Precepts. We can have a consistent label to differentiate it from the other posts that starts with something like Treeleaf's Buddha Basics: ....

Just an idea to simply.

Thanks,
Jodi

[Hoyu]

Re: Precepts and Perfections and Other Lowly Things

Hi Jodi,

I like your idea!

Gassho,
John

[Taigu]

Re: Precepts and Perfections and Other Lowly Things

Thanks Jodi.

Saijun, where do you want to start???

gassho

Taigu

[Saijun]

Re: Precepts and Perfections and Other Lowly Things

Thanks Jodi.

Saijun, where do you want to start???

gassho

Taigu

Hello Rev. Taigu,

I suppose we should start with the Four Noble Truths; I'll set up the thread, and perhaps a moderator/admin would be kind enough to move the already-submitted-posts regarding them to the new one.

Metta,

Saijun

[Jiken]

Re: Precepts and Perfections and Other Lowly Things

[quote]The Middle way...it is not the in-between. It is the one with. Practice as study, study as practice. When ractice and study cannot be differenciated. Somethig along that line./quote]

Changing the topic a little Taigu, or other treeleafers, could you expand on this idea for me.