Hard times...mentally

[Jundo]

Re: Hard times...mentally

Hello everyone,

Is it okay to point out someone's faults if it to protect another? For example, if someone is in an abusive relationship, can we point out the fault of the abuser to save the abused?

Gassho,

Adam

Hi Adam,

A lot of the Precepts are really just common wise advise, like your mother might tell you. So, of course, it is okay to criticize someone or something if for a constructive purpose, in a helpful way. Of course.

If you are doing it to attack the other person, make your ego feel or look good in comparison, just be mean, out of jealousy ... that is not good, constructive criticism. That is about your ego, you self.

On the other hand, if you offer helpful, concerned criticism out of Compassion, a desire to avoid harm to someone ... well, that lets your ego out of the equation, and is for the benefit of the other person.

I would also say the manner in which the message is delivered is important ... do so in an effective yet helpful way, not in a way that makes greater harm (you sometimes need to deliver bitter medicine straight and direct, sometimes better in a bit of sugar like in the old song).

If you are offering criticism to help the person avoid an abusive relationship, and not to help yourself (in fact, at some risk to your self), then that is good. If you are delivering the message in an effective way that is more helpful than harmful, that is good.

Do you agree Chet?

I understand letting go of all judgements and thoughts of "good" and "bad,"

I like to say that, so long as we are alive, we need judgments, thoughts of good and bad ... otherwise, we would walk off a cliff each day. So, it is more accurate to say that, in Buddhist Practice, we completely drop all judgments, thoughts of good and bad on one level ... while keep them (although without excess clutching, without attachment) on another level ... like two sides of a single coin.

One one level, we drop all thought from mind of "chocolate" and "lemons". On the other, we like chocolate, not lemons and choose chocolate.

But then, if life hands you lemons ... have the bitter lemons even with the bitterness, accept what life hands you (and try to make lemon aide! Like I said ... some of this is like your mother might tell you!)

Gassho, Jundo

[Adam]

Re: Hard times...mentally

Wow...you're trying so hard, aren't you Adam? You're bound and determined to hold on to judgment. Why is this? You seem to desperately want your judgment to serve some purpose.

Hello Chet,

I'm actually not trying to hold on to anything. I'm just trying to understand some of the precepts. I understand letting go of all judgements and thoughts of "good" and "bad," but aren't there times when we should be the voice of the voiceless? I mean if someone we love is having a hard time in life, I believe it's our duty to try and help that person. I'm not saying to judge everyone that crosses our path; just asking a simple question. We shouldn't just stand by and allow for our loved ones to be abused. That was the basis of my question. As discussed above, I am finding it hard to withhold my judgements, at times, but I am trying. I'm new on the path, and I'm not even close to figuring things out, but I feel that it was a valid question that I asked. I'm not using the "judgement" to show faults in others and praise myself. I'm only asking about showing compassion for a loved one and trying to help them. Maybe my question was worded poorly, and I hope I've explained it a little better in this reply.

Gassho,

Adam

Re: Hard times...mentally

Hello everyone,

Is it okay to point out someone's faults if it to protect another? For example, if someone is in an abusive relationship, can we point out the fault of the abuser to save the abused?

Gassho,

Adam

Wow...you're trying so hard, aren't you Adam? You're bound and determined to hold on to judgment. Why is this? You seem to desperately want your judgment to serve some purpose.

Chet

[Adam]

Re: Hard times...mentally

Hello everyone,

Is it okay to point out someone's faults if it to protect another? For example, if someone is in an abusive relationship, can we point out the fault of the abuser to save the abused?

Gassho,

Adam

[Dosho]

Re: Hard times...mentally

Hey Adam,

That's great that you are sitting again and I know it can feel good, but remember that dropping the "good" part is just as important as working through the "bad" part.

Gassho,
Dosho

[Adam]

Re: Hard times...mentally

Thank you everyone who has replied to this post; I really appreciate it. I sat zazen today for the first time in a couple weeks, and I cannot believe I ever stopped. As soon as my butt hit the cushion, I felt good. It felt like coming home...so that is my answer: keep sitting. Thanks again for everyone in the Sangha!

Gassho,

Adam

[torotech]

Re: Hard times...mentally

Hey Adam,

Hang in there. These things come and they go. The damage occurs when we allow them to stick around too long. There is no bad zazen, just zazen. Allow your zazen to act as a front door and to let the new experiences in and let the old experiences out.

I'm sure this is true for everyone here, but just in case, if you need anyone to talk to or to sit with, just drop me a line.

Warm Regards,
Brian

[AmongTheLilies]

Re: Hard times...mentally

About being judgmental and holier-than-thou, I've found that I've gotten noticeably better about that (Lord knows I needed to) ever since I decided to stop expressing problems I had with people to third parties. Eventually, outward behavior gets internalized...at least, that's how its seemed for me so far.

But, just to repeat what everyone else said, you're like Socrates who realized that his only wisdom was knowing his own foolishness--the fact that you're aware of it is a *huge* step in the right direction!

[Taigu]

Re: Hard times...mentally

Yes Chet, excellent pointing.

gassho


Taigu

Re: Hard times...mentally

I don't mean to be a Byron Katie cheerleader, but...

http://www.thework.com/thework.asp#top

[mark]

Re: Hard times...mentally

Hi , and thanks for sharing this. I think I have been in a similar frame of mind...

Consider trying this when driving:
If we are all one, not two, then that person who just cut you off is, well... you. I suspect that this is rather ridiculous (and you may find it so) but I find it useful to mentally switch the language in my head around. “You” becomes “I” and the reverse... When someone is foolish on the road around me (i.e. constantly) I say to myself “why am I doing this silly thing” or “my, I must be desperate and unaware”. Really I am sure this is in essence the same thing that you are doing, but the change in mental language usually makes me smile and keep my foot off of the accelerator.

Also please beware of “should”. One does or thinks something or one does not –“ should” is judgment and may hurt you. Perhaps it would be best to think “next time I will...”

Final thing; I struggle with that herd mentality thing from time to time also, and I am always deeply disappointed in myself when I get sucked in to it (over and over and over). The thing is done though, and I will try to be better prepared the inevitable next time. What hurts me is hanging on to it. So... I sit. I am very inept but I at least intend to drop all likes and dislikes. It helps. Metta is also fabulous – remember it starts with yourself.

Wow, long winded and preachy - sorry, I'll have to watch that.

Mark

[bayamo]

Re: Hard times...mentally

just try your best.. no one can really ask for more
gassho

[Taigu]

Re: Hard times...mentally

Adam, thank you for your post. Suffering has one juicy side to it: we like it, it is comforting and we like to go on and on about the same old thing. It provides us with a very tasty sense of identity. At the same time, it is a poisoning thing to feed. Vicious circle. You just have to break the pattern. Practice is what breaks the pattern and cuts the habit. Practice. Just practice. So my advice is practice, practice, practice. Attention, attention, attention. And repeat. Repeat. Of course you may take others and yourself less seriously, but it boils down to p.......


So...

have a good one and r..... p....... endlessly...

gassho



Taigu

[Cameron]

Re: Hard times...mentally

I think daily zazen is the way to go. It will help you recognize and deal properly with your own "thought garbage"©. I've been having problems like yours more than normal lately and I couldn't imagine how rough it would be without zazen. I've been doing daily zazen for 5 and a half months now and I don't think I can honestly stop. I didn't feel as well for those few days I've skipped. Maybe it was all in my head :P. It's clear that your working on your perspective, zazen is a way to polish it. Approach with true grit.

Cam

[AlanLa]

Re: Hard times...mentally

Adam, thank you for the bigger picture. One of the ways burnout happens is when a person is in a job or environment, or both, that conflicts with his/her values. The job requires and/or your are surrounded by behavior that contradicts the values you believe in. This happened to me once and it was terrible, horrible, probably similar to what you are going through now, truly dark days. You need to find your way out. I quit that job and chose to suffer the poverty of unemployment rather than do something so contrary to my values, but, I repeat, you need to find your own way. The way you find is the growth you will find as a result of this awareness, be it by keeping that job and finding a way to cope with it or moving on. Growth can be painful; I was days away from being homeless and penniless when I left that job, desperate yet secure I had done the right thing. I know now that it was just a step on the Path to where I am now, but at the time it was a step off a 100 foot pole.