Hard times...mentally

[Taigu]

Re: Hard times...mentally

Yes Chet, excellent pointing.

gassho


Taigu

[AmongTheLilies]

Re: Hard times...mentally

About being judgmental and holier-than-thou, I've found that I've gotten noticeably better about that (Lord knows I needed to) ever since I decided to stop expressing problems I had with people to third parties. Eventually, outward behavior gets internalized...at least, that's how its seemed for me so far.

But, just to repeat what everyone else said, you're like Socrates who realized that his only wisdom was knowing his own foolishness--the fact that you're aware of it is a *huge* step in the right direction!

[torotech]

Re: Hard times...mentally

Hey Adam,

Hang in there. These things come and they go. The damage occurs when we allow them to stick around too long. There is no bad zazen, just zazen. Allow your zazen to act as a front door and to let the new experiences in and let the old experiences out.

I'm sure this is true for everyone here, but just in case, if you need anyone to talk to or to sit with, just drop me a line.

Warm Regards,
Brian

[Adam]

Re: Hard times...mentally

Thank you everyone who has replied to this post; I really appreciate it. I sat zazen today for the first time in a couple weeks, and I cannot believe I ever stopped. As soon as my butt hit the cushion, I felt good. It felt like coming home...so that is my answer: keep sitting. Thanks again for everyone in the Sangha!

Gassho,

Adam

[Dosho]

Re: Hard times...mentally

Hey Adam,

That's great that you are sitting again and I know it can feel good, but remember that dropping the "good" part is just as important as working through the "bad" part.

Gassho,
Dosho

[Adam]

Re: Hard times...mentally

Hello everyone,

Is it okay to point out someone's faults if it to protect another? For example, if someone is in an abusive relationship, can we point out the fault of the abuser to save the abused?

Gassho,

Adam

[disastermouse]

Re: Hard times...mentally

Hello everyone,

Is it okay to point out someone's faults if it to protect another? For example, if someone is in an abusive relationship, can we point out the fault of the abuser to save the abused?

Gassho,

Adam

Wow...you're trying so hard, aren't you Adam? You're bound and determined to hold on to judgment. Why is this? You seem to desperately want your judgment to serve some purpose.

Chet

[Adam]

Re: Hard times...mentally

Wow...you're trying so hard, aren't you Adam? You're bound and determined to hold on to judgment. Why is this? You seem to desperately want your judgment to serve some purpose.

Hello Chet,

I'm actually not trying to hold on to anything. I'm just trying to understand some of the precepts. I understand letting go of all judgements and thoughts of "good" and "bad," but aren't there times when we should be the voice of the voiceless? I mean if someone we love is having a hard time in life, I believe it's our duty to try and help that person. I'm not saying to judge everyone that crosses our path; just asking a simple question. We shouldn't just stand by and allow for our loved ones to be abused. That was the basis of my question. As discussed above, I am finding it hard to withhold my judgements, at times, but I am trying. I'm new on the path, and I'm not even close to figuring things out, but I feel that it was a valid question that I asked. I'm not using the "judgement" to show faults in others and praise myself. I'm only asking about showing compassion for a loved one and trying to help them. Maybe my question was worded poorly, and I hope I've explained it a little better in this reply.

Gassho,

Adam

[Jundo]

Re: Hard times...mentally

Hello everyone,

Is it okay to point out someone's faults if it to protect another? For example, if someone is in an abusive relationship, can we point out the fault of the abuser to save the abused?

Gassho,

Adam

Hi Adam,

A lot of the Precepts are really just common wise advise, like your mother might tell you. So, of course, it is okay to criticize someone or something if for a constructive purpose, in a helpful way. Of course.

If you are doing it to attack the other person, make your ego feel or look good in comparison, just be mean, out of jealousy ... that is not good, constructive criticism. That is about your ego, you self.

On the other hand, if you offer helpful, concerned criticism out of Compassion, a desire to avoid harm to someone ... well, that lets your ego out of the equation, and is for the benefit of the other person.

I would also say the manner in which the message is delivered is important ... do so in an effective yet helpful way, not in a way that makes greater harm (you sometimes need to deliver bitter medicine straight and direct, sometimes better in a bit of sugar like in the old song).

If you are offering criticism to help the person avoid an abusive relationship, and not to help yourself (in fact, at some risk to your self), then that is good. If you are delivering the message in an effective way that is more helpful than harmful, that is good.

Do you agree Chet?

I understand letting go of all judgements and thoughts of "good" and "bad,"

I like to say that, so long as we are alive, we need judgments, thoughts of good and bad ... otherwise, we would walk off a cliff each day. So, it is more accurate to say that, in Buddhist Practice, we completely drop all judgments, thoughts of good and bad on one level ... while keep them (although without excess clutching, without attachment) on another level ... like two sides of a single coin.

One one level, we drop all thought from mind of "chocolate" and "lemons". On the other, we like chocolate, not lemons and choose chocolate.

But then, if life hands you lemons ... have the bitter lemons even with the bitterness, accept what life hands you (and try to make lemon aide! Like I said ... some of this is like your mother might tell you!)

Gassho, Jundo

[Adam]

Re: Hard times...mentally

Jundo,

Thank you so much for answering this thread. I am trying to let go of judging others because it's not constructive to myself or the person being judged, so there is no need for it. However, I do think that if the intention is to help another person escape a difficult (or possible dangerous) situation, that judgement is needed. Maybe I'm using the word "judgement" in too broad a way, so I can understand why some would misunderstand my post. I do agree with Chet, in that I think that we suffer, holding on to these feelings, but I think that my post was read in a different way than I intended. I meant that helping someone see other perspectives of the situation that they are in may help them live a better life, i.e. escaping that abusive relationship. I appreciate the response, and the guiding words, Jundo.

Gassho,

Adam

[disastermouse]

Re: Hard times...mentally

I agree with both of you. I think the reason for the confusion has to do with the fact that using discernment in the service of others seems to be the astoundingly obvious thing to do.

I think that trying to conform behaviour to morals is counterproductive if one's view has not already been tranformed and clarified.

Hence, clarify your view and right action will flow. Then you can use the precepts as a guide to reflect your own misunderstanding. If you break a precept or good general rule for a truly correct reason, there will be little anxiety if your view is clear. Similarly, following the letter of the precepts in a harmful way will cause anxiety, even if repressed.

Hence, one would only ask the questions the OP is asking if one was trying to formulate philosophically correct rules. We don't need philosophically perfect rules - in fact, perfect rules are impossible.

As regards the principles of Buddhism and the rules, the only important question is, "Am I shitting myself?"



IMHO

Chet

[Rich]

Re: Hard times...mentally

Hence, one would only ask the questions the OP is asking if one was trying to formulate philosophically correct rules. We don't need philosophically perfect rules - in fact, perfect rules are impossible.

As regards the principles of Buddhism and the rules, the only important question is, "Am I shitting myself?"



IMHO

Chet

Right on. I can't think of a good example right now but sometimes breaking a precept is the correct action. Like if a hunter was chasing an animal and asked you which way the animal went, you lie and say 'thata way' to save the animal. Rephrasing your question, What is it? right now.

[disastermouse]

Re: Hard times...mentally

Hence, one would only ask the questions the OP is asking if one was trying to formulate philosophically correct rules. We don't need philosophically perfect rules - in fact, perfect rules are impossible.

As regards the principles of Buddhism and the rules, the only important question is, "Am I shitting myself?"



IMHO

Chet

Right on. I can't think of a good example right now but sometimes breaking a precept is the correct action. Like if a hunter was chasing an animal and asked you which way the animal went, you lie and say 'thata way' to save the animal. Rephrasing your question, What is it? right now.

I'm not entirely sure that lying to the hunter is the correct choice, actually.

Chet

[Dosho]

Re: Hard times...mentally

Hence, one would only ask the questions the OP is asking if one was trying to formulate philosophically correct rules. We don't need philosophically perfect rules - in fact, perfect rules are impossible.

As regards the principles of Buddhism and the rules, the only important question is, "Am I shitting myself?"



IMHO

Chet

Right on. I can't think of a good example right now but sometimes breaking a precept is the correct action. Like if a hunter was chasing an animal and asked you which way the animal went, you lie and say 'thata way' to save the animal. Rephrasing your question, What is it? right now.

I'm not entirely sure that lying to the hunter is the correct choice, actually.

Chet

ok, I'll bite...why wouldn't that be the correct choice?

[disastermouse]

Re: Hard times...mentally

ok, I'll bite...why wouldn't that be the correct choice?

If the hunter's family is starving, why are we saving the animal?

Chet