Enlightenment experience

[Jakuden]

”like water changing a rock by its movement” will become my answer.

Doshin
St

Same here!! Thank you Onkai.

Gassho,
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH

[Onkai]

Yes, that's another very common metaphor that Soto folks use, that we pass through the mountain like water flowing through the cracks and spaces, being the mountain's flowing itself, rather than blowing a hole through with TNT.

Gassho, J

STLah

I'm glad that people liked the metaphor of the water on rock. It isn't original but like many things, I don't remember where I came across it - Dogen? Jundo? Somewhere else?
I'm sorry I don't have the source.

Gassho,
Onkai
Sat

[Jundo]

Someone posted on Facebook a very nice quote from Uchiyama Roshi from a teaching he offered on Shobogenzo-Shoaku-Makusa ....

"Perhaps you might be disposed to think that since a person has been practicing a long time, surely they must be in possession of the virtue or power of practice. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as a totally complete practitioner. There just aren't manufactured, "satorized" human beings. You know, that satori thing is very fast: it runs away very quickly. The satori you may have bagged in the morning is already beginning to smell bad by noontime. You have no choice but to get rid of this morning's satori that same morning. It is not like something you would put in the refrigerator thinking you will snack on it later on in the day. It only comes raw, uncooked!"

Uchiyama Roshi



Gassho, J

STLah

[Doshin]

Words to ponder

Doshin
St

[Onkai]

Someone posted a very nice quote from Uchiyama Roshi from a teaching he offered on Shobogenzo-Shoaku-Makusa ....


"Perhaps you might be disposed to think that since a person has been practicing a long time, surely they must be in possession of the virtue or power of practice. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as a totally complete practitioner. There just aren't manufactured, "satorized" human beings. You know, that satori thing is very fast: it runs away very quickly. The satori you may have bagged in the morning is already beginning to smell bad by noontime. You have no choice but to get rid of this morning's satori that same morning. It is not like something you would put in the refrigerator thinking you will snack on it later on in the day. It only comes raw, uncooked!"

Uchiyama Roshi



Gassho, J

STLah

Love it!

Gassho,
Onkai
Sat/lah

[Tairin]

Love it!

Gassho,
Onkai
Sat/lah

Me too. I think I’ll keep that handy.


Tairin
Sat today and lah

[Heiso]

Sitting has changed me since then, but like water changing a rock by its movement

[Tosei]

I had one such moment--that seemed much longer--early in my practice. It has never repeated itself, and although I keep an eye (one of three?) open in case it happens again, I didn't DO anything to bring it about the first time. That seems like a fine way to proceed.

Gassho,

Peter

>satoday

[Jundo]

Bro. Brad Warner has a pretty good talk today on such experiences, and our teacher Nishijima's and other Zen teachers' attitudes toward such ...

https://youtu.be/HalHIdcdiR8

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

PS - His related talk from the day before, on "Zazen is good for nothing," is good for something too ...

https://youtu.be/vIUO-IZCsqM

[Tom A.]

It’s a challenge for us newbies to ignore talks of a tempting enlightenment, Kensho, or satori fast track. There seem to be two options for us:

to sit sweating, with an iron ball in our throats, saying “muuuuu,” for hours on end, feeling something that might be satori and then having a teacher invalidate our experience, sitting again and feeling worse than before...

VERSUS

to actually just sit, and be quiet as much as possible, to have trust in the priceless bright pearl of wholeness and completeness, to say “enough” to greed, smile with equanimity and contentment and acknowledge that everyday is a “good” day, even “bad” ones, etc... etc... etc... and maybe experience “satori” or not.

Due respect to Kapleau, but I’d take the second route any day.

Gassho,
Tom

SAT/LAH


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Jundo]

It’s a challenge for us newbies to ignore talks of a tempting enlightenment, Kensho, or satori fast track. There seem to be two options for us:

to sit sweating, with an iron ball in our throats, saying “muuuuu,” for hours on end, feeling something that might be satori and then having a teacher invalidate our experience, sitting again and feeling worse than before...

VERSUS

to actually just sit, and be quiet as much as possible, to have trust in the priceless bright pearl of wholeness and completeness, to say “enough” to greed, smile with equanimity and contentment and acknowledge that everyday is a “good” day, even “bad” ones, etc... etc... etc... and maybe experience “satori” or not.

https://youtu.be/JDSPwexlyTo

[Tairin]

Well said Tom and I am with you on that. My early days of Zen started down the Koan / satori route based on the centre I joined. Something inside me said it wasn’t the right path for me. I am so glad I discovered the Soto Zen Shikantaza path. It intuitively feels right.


Tairin
Sat today and lah

[Jishin]

Hi,

If enlightenment could be defined by the phrase "that's not it.." then anyone who opens their mouth on this topic is way way off...

Me included.

From a stationary bike fixing to hit the shower for work.

Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

[Tom A.]

Hi,

If enlightenment could be defined by the phrase "that's not it.." then anyone who opens their mouth on this topic is way way off...

Me included.

From a stationary bike fixing to hit the shower for work.

Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

Also, the impression I get from reading Steve Heine's new book on Dogen, is that Dogen says awakening (as synonymous with the word "enlightenment") is not wasting life. Not wasting life because of a deep knowledge of impermanence and death. I'm a newbie so I hope this is correct and relevant.

Gassho,
Tom

Sat/Lah

[Risho]

Tom - I haven't read that book, but I would reckon that "not wasting life" means doing our best in all circumstances. We know for example that we can't perfectly adhere to the precepts but we do our best.

Gassho

Rish
-stlah