Enlightenment experience

[Choboku]

I am seeking insight- Today, while going about my day, I had what I would consider an enlightenment experience. I had a sudden understanding of life, death, permanence and impermanence, and the finality of things. It was very scary and fascinating at the same time, and the overwhelming part of the feeling left fairly quickly.

Sat today,
Adam

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[Jundo]

Hi Adam,

My usual "rule of thumb" on such timeless moments is:

If it is truly worthwhile, it will leave you with good wisdom that will have some positive effects in your life that will stay with you, and truly help you see a bit beyond our petty little self and its hungers. This especially becomes clear when "life hits the fan" in the future, and the insights now color how we experience life's ups and downs.

On the other hand, if not then it is just a passing fancy ...

... and whatever the case, just learn from such, then move on, neither hungering for the experience to repeat, nor running from the experience ... and just continue one's practice.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Jundo]

PS - Maybe others here might comments on whether they have had such experiences during their years of practice, and whether there were lasting effects on this life.

I sure have (or I wouldn't be bothering with all we do around here ), and it is most obvious to me at the hard times in life, anything from when my daughter was near death in the hospital, I had cancer, just when I had a flat tire in the rain or a car accident ... and I felt that I could experience the wholeness and peace that holds all that mess, fear, frustration and trouble.

I tried to express the "life two ways as one" of those terrible times here:

Two eyes open together

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?17962-Two-eyes-open-together

Gassho, J

STLah

[Jishin]

I am seeking insight- Today, while going about my day, I had what I would consider an enlightenment experience. I had a sudden understanding of life, death, permanence and impermanence, and the finality of things. It was very scary and fascinating at the same time, and the overwhelming part of the feeling left fairly quickly.

Sat today,
Adam

Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk

Hi,

If your experience can be put into words then that is not it.

My 2 cents.

Respectfully submitted,

Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

[Horin]

Hey Adam,
it's great to encounter these states of mind. I also had experienced some of them, and before I met Jundo, I was trying to experience these states again and again, because I was so much impressed by them. So, I tried to stabilize them, thought, the goal must be to have these states as a permanent "awakening". And it was silly, every time they went, I was disappointed and was longing for more. Finally, Jundo made clear that these states are just as impermanent as any other state and we just sit through them, all of the experiences are Zazen, even the ordinary ones, those when thoughts arise are perfectly fine. So, as jundo said, appreciate these special states and you might learn from them.

I was reading the sandokai the other day and it reminds me of embracing both the form and the formless, the world and the absolute or the duality and the non-duality..

“To be attached to things is illusion; To encounter the absolute is not yet enlightenment.”

Neither to cling on the world nor sticking in the absolute is the way and with our practice, we encouter two sides of the same coin, the truth of relativity, of duality, where things are related, interdepended, caused and conditioned, but also something beyond... Something absolute, where nothing is seperated from another, everything is part of the same oneness. And with our practice we bring both aspects into harmony

“Ordinary life fits the absolute as a box and its lid. The absolute works together with the relative like two arrows meeting in mid-air.”
Well... at least this is my understanding of it..

Gassho

Ben

Stlah



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[Jundo]

Hi,

If your experience can be put into words then that is not it.

My 2 cents.

That is not true.

Words don't quite capture it, just like the words "Grand Canyon" or "mom" or "chocolate" cannot ever really get all the wonder, emotions and sweetness of each of those ... but Zen folks are pretty good about creatively using words, images, poetry, shouts and circles in the air or whatever is handy to get as close as one can, or at least a taste.

Otherwise, what was someone like Master Dogen rambling on about in all those pages and pages of magical prose in Shobogenzo?

Gassho, J

STLah

[Jishin]

That is not true.

Words don't quite capture it, just like the words "Grand Canyon" or "mom" or "chocolate" cannot ever really get all the wonder, emotions and sweetness of each of those ... but Zen folks are pretty good about creatively using words, images, poetry, shouts and circles in the air or whatever is handy to get as close as one can, or at least a taste.

Otherwise, what was someone like Master Dogen rambling on about in all those pages and pages of magical prose in Shobogenzo?

Gassho, J

STLah

"The Tao that can be told
is not the eternal Tao.
The name that can be named
is not the eternal Name.

The unnamable is the eternally real.
Naming is the origin
of all particular things." - Tao The Ching

If it can be talked about it, it's not it but let's go on and talk about it because it's the best that we can do. [emoji1]

Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

[Risho]

Adam,

I'm just a lay practitioner that knows nothing about nothing, and I wholeheartedly mean that.

These are some things I ask myself, and I know it seems to contract that "zen is not good for anything", but that is not what I mean here. What will you do with that experience? Will you use it to make you better (kinder, more helpful, doing hard things and not running from them)? Will you use it to help you make your life more meaningful?

There is something with this pratice that helps us live this life like a great experiment; it softens our edges, and I don't mean makes us weak. I mean it allows us to live almost like a scientist; we have to come into situations with "knowledge" but as we learn new things we need to adjust. Practice helps me do that. Practice makes me loosen my grip on my strongly held beliefs and not take things too personally. There are experiences that happen during practice - but when you stare at a wall or if you are in the "flow" of whatever you are doing if you've been doing it long enough, your mind does crazy things. It doesn't mean it's good or bad or we should latch on or reject.

So we are limited by words - it cannot capture everything but we have to use something, and we are stuck with them, so we have to try.

I find that although there is no goal in practice - my life is an experiment meaning coming into every day as a beginner - even while still having experience. For instance, I love working out. Every workout, you can come into it as something that's routine and over time things become easy, but if you really try to challenge yourself consistently you will feel like a beginner always because you are doing more, lifting more etc.

No matter what we know - we are always beginners because we don't know much. We are always learning, always seeing new perspectives, or I should say those things are available to a flexible mind.

All of this is hard to articulate but I think the key point with this (at least for me) is that we learn from this practice (as Jundo mentioned) and not get too hung up on experiences but try to apply anything that we learn and not worry to much about it.

We are all going to die, sooner than we'd all like; I know that's sobering from one perspective, but it also makes our lives more meaningful. How will you be remembered?

Gassho

Rish
-stlah

[Jundo]

If it can be talked about it, it's not it but let's go on and talk about it because it's the best that we can do. [emoji1]

Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

Exactly. That's why some fool grabbed a pen and wrote the Tao The Ching.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Kokuu]

I'm just a lay practitioner that knows nothing about nothing, and I wholeheartedly mean that.

I can totally vouch for Risho on this

There is something with this pratice that helps us live this life like a great experiment; it softens our edges, and I don't mean makes us weak. I mean it allows us to live almost like a scientist; we have to come into situations with "knowledge" but as we learn new things we need to adjust. Practice helps me do that. Practice makes me loosen my grip on my strongly held beliefs and not take things too personally. There are experiences that happen during practice - but when you stare at a wall or if you are in the "flow" of whatever you are doing if you've been doing it long enough, your mind does crazy things. It doesn't mean it's good or bad or we should latch on or reject.

So we are limited by words - it cannot capture everything but we have to use something, and we are stuck with them, so we have to try.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/lah-

[Risho]

hahahah thanks Kokuu

gassho

Rish
-stlah

[Guest]

Enlightenment experience

Words don't quite capture it, just like the words "Grand Canyon" or "mom" or "chocolate" cannot ever really get all the wonder, emotions and sweetness of each of those ... but Zen folks are pretty good about creatively using words, images, poetry, shouts and circles in the air or whatever is handy to get as close as one can, or at least a taste.

Otherwise, what was someone like Master Dogen rambling on about in all those pages and pages of magical prose in Shobogenzo?

Gassho, J

STLah

I find the more I experience the experiences and nonexperiences as practice deepens there is more silence from me and the world. But wonderful words do come like a dance of poetry. Explain the unexplainable, how wonderful! [emoji4]

Ghasso
Bobby
SatTodayLAH


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[Ryumon]

I am seeking insight- Today, while going about my day, I had what I would consider an enlightenment experience. I had a sudden understanding of life, death, permanence and impermanence, and the finality of things. It was very scary and fascinating at the same time, and the overwhelming part of the feeling left fairly quickly.

Whatevs. Don't seek. Just move on.

Gassho,

Kirk

sat

[Sekishi]

Exactly. That's why some fool grabbed a pen and wrote the Tao The Ching.

Nine bows.

Sekishi
#sat

[serenewolf]

An enlightenment experience is what brought me here and i suspect this will be more than three sentances but i will try to keep it brief. I was suffering from severe depression for 20 years before i decided to use meditation to face my past and pain. I was able to figure out how the mind works and why people do what they do. When i opened my eyes the world seemed brighter and my depression was gone. What a joyous feeling! I understood the world in a new way and then found buddhism which spoke of many of the lessons i had learned, which led me to Shokai, who led me to Treeleaf.
Gassho
David
Sat