Violent Media and Right Thought

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  • Bion
    Treeleaf Unsui
    • Aug 2020
    • 4432

    #31
    Originally posted by Ryan-S
    I was able to find a wonderful thread started by Kyonin here: Violence in Entertainment

    It was very helpful, but I have a sort of followup question that aligns with developing more sensitivity to violent media. This might be super obvious and is clearly subjective (ie what is considered violent media might vary from person to person). Even so, I would be interested in opinions if anyone has the time and feels inclined to share

    My question(s): In thinking on the eightfold path, specifically Right Thought, would consuming violent media be advised against? Put another way, as a Buddhist, is violent media something that should be abstained from?

    For me, I am specifically thinking on violent music and film. Like Kyonin mentions in the thread he started, after around 6-7 months of practice I too find that there are certain media preferences, especially music, that are shifting for me. Much of the violent music I once listened to on a regular basis just isn't appealing anymore. I'm also noticing that types of shows and films I once watched are a struggle at times when they have gratuitous violence.

    But still, my interest hasn't completely dropped off on these things. I don't want to write a book here, but one strong example is music. I still listen to some stuff that elicits an aggressive emotion/energy. Such material almost always contains violent lyrics and imagery (black metal and certain industrial artists for example). I enjoy it during a workout, while driving, or making art... but I feel like the aggressive/negative feelings I get from listening to it works against the ideal of Right Thought.

    Maybe as time goes my interest in such things will continue to wane. I guess the main reason I am curious is that I wonder if keeping such media in my life (which is all part of the practice -- not just zen on the zafu, but in all things; all of life) is counterproductive to the practice.

    Thank you for reading!

    Gassho,

    Ryan S
    Sat Today
    I find this to be a particularly interesting question/topic. It makes me think of the tendency some christian groups have of deeming certain types of entertainment as unsuitable for the followers. I experienced that firsthand as a Jehovah’s Witness. Violent, sexual, occult content in books, entertainment, music were strongly discouraged and even a reason for punishment. The logic behind that is that it taints one’s mind and exposes them to evil thoughts.

    Obviously, the subconscious is a powerful thing and of course what we consume, whether physical or intellectual food has an effect on us.

    However, speaking of certain content being advised against by someone else whose criteria might be different than yours opens the door for a very cult-like behavior. While we definitely have guidelines for behavior coming from the Buddha, masters, etc it all meant to help us keep the precepts and walk the Buddha way. But ULTIMATELY, the Middle Way is very different for each person and what is too much for one might be just enough for another and what might be a challenge or a stumbling block for one person might be nothing for another.

    My point here is that the issue should not be so much whether something is advised against or not, but rather if we make wise choices on our own. I think it is much more important for an individual to act “right” based on their own compassion, empathy, wisdom, impulses and choices than for them to do so out of a sense of obligation to something external.

    In my case for example I find little to no entertainment in certain types of violent content.. I stay away from horror movies after a certain time of the day as I know they make me uneasy at night and I have no need to torture myself. I never use obscene language EVER, not in public, not with friends, just cause I think it sets a bad example and tarnishes the image of what a zen practitioner should be for others and also because I am perfectly capable of expressing any emotion, feeling or idea using a language that doesn’t make anyone uncomfortable and is not offensive. Rather than doing it because I was told to, I’ve ended up here as a result of the practice and I do think that is ultimately the goal.

    SatToday lah
    "Stepping back with open hands, is thoroughly comprehending life and death. Immediately you can sparkle and respond to the world." - Hongzhi

    Comment

    • Bokugan
      Member
      • Dec 2019
      • 435

      #32
      Jake,

      You hit on something important here. Thinking back on the watering the right seeds of our mind's garden metaphor Shinshi shared, I feel this question of media impacting right thought is absolutely a personal decision and not something anyone else can dictate for us (it is our garden, after all -- ultimately all one garden, but a garden that we are tending).

      So, it is not the point to avoid all media that could be considered violent -- just learning that one needs to be in tune with what the consumption of certain media (as discussed in the article Tairin shared) residually leaves behind and make decisions based on whether we are watering the right seeds/affecting right thought in negative or positive ways. On top of that, we also can't be too sheltered and need to experience life, which is part of the point I believe Jishin was bringing up.

      Thank you for sharing! I know I went over a bit here, but this has been an excellent discussion for me.

      Gassho

      Ryan
      Sat Today
      墨眼 | Bokugan | Sumi Ink Eye
      Ryan-S | zazenlibrarian.com

      Comment

      • Geika
        Treeleaf Unsui
        • Jan 2010
        • 4981

        #33
        Good points, Jake, I feel much the same.

        Gassho
        Sat today, lah
        求道芸化 Kyūdō Geika
        I am just a priest-in-training, please do not take anything I say as a teaching.

        Comment

        • Bion
          Treeleaf Unsui
          • Aug 2020
          • 4432

          #34
          Originally posted by Geika
          Good points, Jake, I feel much the same.

          Gassho
          Sat today, lah
          [emoji1374]
          ST lah
          "Stepping back with open hands, is thoroughly comprehending life and death. Immediately you can sparkle and respond to the world." - Hongzhi

          Comment

          • sreed
            Member
            • Dec 2018
            • 101

            #35
            Let me strt by saying that I read this thread and Kyonin's original post a few days ago. This topic has been with me during Samu.

            I think about: how much I love the Die Hard movies, and action flicks in general, especially martial arts.
            It's all a fantasy and an art form.
            I am a very sensitive person who can't watch overly violent or disturbing things.

            Today I was watching a tv special on how Hitler profited off concentration camp prisoners and working them to death. I asked my husband to change the channel because it was too disturbing and mad me feel nauseous. He changed the channel. Then I wondered if I should have continued watching it because it was educational and it happened, even though I didn't like it, there was something to learn.


            I have decided that I haven't decided how I feel about this topic yet. I'm still processing it but very happy to have this brought to my attention.


            -Sara
            ST

            Comment

            • Emmet
              Member
              • Nov 2011
              • 296

              #36
              Perhaps this is an American cultural phenomenon, but...try this thought experiment.

              Spend several hours each weekday evening watching police dramas, not just with their inherent violence, but their archetypes; the agents of the State as heroes; pretty much everyone else as suspects and perpetrators, including people who look a lot like our fellow citizens and neighbors.
              Then watch the evening news, which will spend an inordinate amount of time breathlessly recounting the lurid details of some individual's sociopathic behavior, without ever providing the context that they're referring to only one person out of millions (for example, metro Atlanta; one person out of five million eight thousand).
              Now; go to the grocery store on Saturday, and tell me that you don't look upon your fellow human beings a little bit less charitably than you did the previous Monday morning.
              There's a reason they call it "programming". Thich Nhat Hanh was right when he included "toxins" from "certain websites, electronic games, TV programs, films, magazines, books, and conversations" in their version of the 5th Precept. There are many more delusive, destructive, and addictive intoxicants out there than just alcohol & drugs.
              Emmet

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              • Margherita
                Member
                • May 2017
                • 138

                #37
                I have always loved creepy, sometimes violent readings, like King or Lovecraft, I love Tarantino's and similar movies, and I still shout some metal music if I'm angry.
                I am going to study creative writing in October and I wonder, does writing horror/bloody stories make me a violent person, and a bad Buddhist?
                Personally I I don't think that putting my frustrations and fears into what I watch, read, listen or write makes me violent, but even so, I try to hit the middle way.

                Gassho,
                Mags
                ST

                Sent from my SM-J600FN using Tapatalk

                Comment

                • Risho
                  Member
                  • May 2010
                  • 3179

                  #38
                  Originally posted by Margherita
                  I have always loved creepy, sometimes violent readings, like King or Lovecraft, I love Tarantino's and similar movies, and I still shout some metal music if I'm angry.
                  I am going to study creative writing in October and I wonder, does writing horror/bloody stories make me a violent person, and a bad Buddhist?
                  Personally I I don't think that putting my frustrations and fears into what I watch, read, listen or write makes me violent, but even so, I try to hit the middle way.

                  Gassho,
                  Mags
                  ST

                  Sent from my SM-J600FN using Tapatalk
                  You may have read this - but I was just re-reading Brad Warner's "Sit Down and Shut Up", and he has a chapter on anger where he discusses how punk music (what he is a musician in) is seen as angry, but to actually effectively write and perform it you cannot be angry at all.

                  I listen to metal and rap and am exposed to countless forms of violence being portrayed in media (like we all are), but I think we have to make sure we don't start believing messages we listen to and, to Emmet's point, take an inventory that we aren't watering the wrong seeds.

                  I think right now social media and news media may be the things that arouse anger in me the most; I think they are actually designed to evoke an emotive response for profit; sidenote: I'm giving up twitter for ango, and I don't watch news - if I do it's with a heavy eye on who's agenda is being promoted.

                  Gassho

                  Rish
                  -stlah
                  Email: risho.treeleaf@gmail.com

                  Comment

                  • Bion
                    Treeleaf Unsui
                    • Aug 2020
                    • 4432

                    #39
                    Originally posted by Margherita
                    I have always loved creepy, sometimes violent readings, like King or Lovecraft, I love Tarantino's and similar movies, and I still shout some metal music if I'm angry.
                    I am going to study creative writing in October and I wonder, does writing horror/bloody stories make me a violent person, and a bad Buddhist?
                    Personally I I don't think that putting my frustrations and fears into what I watch, read, listen or write makes me violent, but even so, I try to hit the middle way.

                    Gassho,
                    Mags
                    ST

                    Sent from my SM-J600FN using Tapatalk
                    I think many times when we ask certain questions we already know what the answer is for ourselves at least, and especially in situations where it’s a matter of conscience.

                    What I mean is that if we do something - always something that doesn’t actually harm anyone - and what we take from it is guilt, we might want to re-analyze why we feel that way, because it’s a source of suffering for us.

                    I don’t believe being a “good buddhist” means just following someone else’s clear rules and regulations, but rather making decisions on our own that are based on the dharma, the precepts and our personal situation, qualities, weaknesses and flaws.

                    [emoji1374] SatToday lah
                    "Stepping back with open hands, is thoroughly comprehending life and death. Immediately you can sparkle and respond to the world." - Hongzhi

                    Comment

                    • Margherita
                      Member
                      • May 2017
                      • 138

                      #40
                      My question about being a good Buddhist was rhetorical, but surely there are certain established rules regarding right thought?

                      I have never read anything by Warner but I agree with him, if you get too much engulfed in a fantasy you're going to get hurt in real life (been there, done that).

                      I do get too much involved in everyday violence thanks to the news, so I decided to read less of it and let my mind rest,

                      Gassho,
                      Mags
                      ST

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